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Re: pricing-- a reply to Denis and Jack



I am really sorry, but I am going to unsubscribe from this list. I
thought I could learn from others about books and "maybe" add something
here or there, but not with this type and a few others on the list.
Thanks, but no, thanks.

Rayburn Taylor
CIS Department
McLennan Community College
Waco, TX
======================================================================================


Denis Gouey wrote:
>
> Steve, you've  got to make up your mind on your qualification, either
> you are an assistant professeur in philosophy as your signature claims
> ,or you are engaged in the conservation business. I respect your
> opinions on the present topic althought I do not agree with it. I will
> respect your opinion about the bookbinding and conservation business
> when you present me with credential on the topic. In other words, what
> are your accomplishments in the field of bookbinding and restoration?
> Apologies from me you are unlikely to receive. First, my saying that you
> do not have a clue about the business is no more insulting than you
> saying that I did not understand a post. Does this imply that I do not
> have the intelligence to understand? Second, I really think that you
> have had no experience in a privatly owned business, be it bookbinding
> or shoemaking or farming. Speaking of farming, your apple analogy does
> not make any sense when applied to thread number 2, the apples you are
> selling at any sort of price have grown on a tree owned by the public.
> If you think there is no ethical issue in moonlighting and profiting at
> the expense of the institution and the tax payers money, then why not
> take some of the rare books in your library and sell it cheaper than a
> rare book dealer would,and, all under the forgiving umbrella of free
> enterprise, make a bundle.
> To answer thread number 1, there is no problem for any one to charge
> lower prices than the competition, as long as it is done at their own
> cost, but it is unethical if the community is picking up the tab.
> On the second chapter you go on taking Jack appart. You've got to admit
> that the sentence is, to say the least, ambiguous. But I will ask you, :
> do "ethical expectation of income" applies to academics as well as
> journeymen?
>
> Steven D. Hales wrote:
>
>   >you obviously don't have any clue about the binding ,
>   >restoration and conservation business.
>
>   It is unfortunate that Denis Gouey chose to insult me rather than
>   criticize
>   my argument. I know that Denis is a fair person as well as an
>   excellent
>   binder, and I am confident that this is just an indication of his
>   passion
>   on this topic.
>
>   There are two threads in this discussion that need to be pried
>   apart:
>   1. Is it wrong for part-time binders to charge lower than average
>   prices?
>   2. Is it wrong for binders to use publicly subsidized equipment in
>   order to
>   moonlight and charge lower prices than the private sector?
>
>   Jack Thompson, in his declaration that "Dennis Gouey is right and
>   Steve
>   Hales is wrong" addresses only the second question, and mistakenly
>   thinks
>   that I am doing the same. However, this is false. I addressed the
>   first
>   question.
>
>   Moreover, here is an analogy to support my original point. Suppose
>   that I
>   own an apple tree, on my land, that I personally cultivate and
>   harvest. I
>   am at liberty to sell my apples, or give them away free to whomever
>   I
>   choose. If I decide to give them all away to whomever asks, I am not
>
>   unfairly competing with the local grocery store. They are *my*
>   apples, and
>   the grocery store has no claim against me that I charge what they
>   insist.
>   The store has no rights over me, my apples, or my labor. Likewise I
>   own all
>   of my binding equipment, and paid for it from my private funds.
>   Professional binders may be resentful if I do free bindings for
>   whomever
>   asks (since those binders wanted the business), but this
>   resentfulness is
>   not a moral argument. As in the apple case, I am at moral liberty to
>   do as
>   I wish.
>
>   To address another of Jack's claims, he writes,
>
>   >Steve says: "No bookbinder, professional or otherwise, has an
>   ethical
>   >>expectation of any sort of income or salary at all."
>   >I haven't the foggiest idea what Steve means here.  Expectation of
>   income
>   >has absolutely nothing to do with ethics.
>
>   This is strange. Jack claims not to understand me, then gives an
>   approximate paraphrase of what I said. His following complaints
>   about
>   income confuse me, however. Jack complains about the cost of his
>   employees,
>   and the little money he has made on videotapes and writing books.
>   Since he
>   thinks that "expectation of income has absolutely nothing to do with
>
>   ethics," he obviously does not believe that these things are unfair
>   or
>   unjust. Therefore I conclude that he is either 1. complaining for
>   its own
>   sake, 2. expressing envy of those who are better off financially as
>   a
>   result of these practices, or 3. expressing resentment of those who
>   are
>   better off financially as a result of these practices.
>
>   Jack also claims that "But do not think of ethics.  Ethics have no
>   place in
>   business as conducted by non-profit institutions or governments." As
>   a
>   matter of practice, I sincerely hope that he is mistaken. As a
>   matter of
>   principle, morality has an important place in these arenas. Indeed,
>   I
>   thought this was the whole topic of conversation.
>
>   Steve
>
>   ***************************************************************************
>
>   Steven D. Hales
>   Assistant Professor                     email: hales@bloomu.edu
>   Department of Philosophy                phone: (717) 389-4229
>   Bloomsburg University                   fax: (717) 389-2094
>   Bloomsburg, PA 17815
>   ***************************************************************************
>
> --
>
> Denis Gouey
>
> Denis Gouey Bookbinding Studio
> PO Box 383 Norfolk CT, 06058
>
> 860 542 5063
>
> http://w3.nai.net/~bbliopeg


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