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Re: BOOK_ARTS-L Digest - 14 Apr 1999 to 15 Apr 1999



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> Subject: BOOK_ARTS-L Digest - 14 Apr 1999 to 15 Apr 1999
> Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 00:02:33 -0400
> From: Automatic digest processor <LISTSERV@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU>
>
> eply-To: "Book_Arts-L: READ THE FAQ at http://www.dreamscape.com/pdverhey" <BOOK_ARTS-L@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU>
>
> To: Recipients of BOOK_ARTS-L digests <BOOK_ARTS-L@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU>
>
> There are 17 messages totalling 649 lines in this issue.
>
> Topics of the day:
>
>   1. Pricings??? (2)
>   2. greetings (2)
>   3. pricing
>   4. Quotations?
>   5. Regarding gold foil (4)
>   6. regarding gold foil
>   7. Book Fair Notification
>   8. brochure w/ quotations (2)
>   9. Quotations
>  10. Book Arts Jamboree
>  11. mixed media books
>
>    ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re: Pricings???
> Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 04:27:30 -0700
> From: leil lucy alexander <leilx@YAHOO.COM>
>
> this made me smile because it is one I have long tried
> to get some reasonable answer to. I had two teachers
> who I respected a lot and here is what I got:
> 1-make sure you are making a reasonable amount of
> money on each--calculate your time, materials and pay
> yourself decently. of course, I quickly discovered
> this makes the books horrifically expensive, as you
> may too. this teacher, by the way, didn't really
> produce artist bookworks for sale, but mostly did
> commissions.
> 2-my other teacher, who produced artist bookworks all
> the time, priced them according to how well he liked
> them. if he liked them a lot, you had to pay more. his
> editions were never more than 7. one which he liked a
> lot cost 100 British pounds. but he also took into
> account the market, of which he was a fairly good
> judge having sold for years.
> 3-with my own work, I take into account the materials
> cost and make sure that I am making back that much at
> least. my last book was so time consuming that there
> was no reasonable way of making money on it so I
> picked a number with the help of some friends that
> seemed reasonable. I have also been known to have a
> sliding scale or trade thing for other artists/close
> friends, but as much as possible I try to stick to the
> quoted price and in no case would I ever sell to one
> collecter/library for less than I sold to another. the
> sliding scale/trade thing is strictly informal/private
> and for people who can't afford under any
> circumstances to pay collector price but who express a
> genuine desire for the book.
>
> I too would be interested in hearing about how others
> price and any other arrangements that they make for
> distributing their books.
>
>
> --- George <gender@RAINBOW.NET.AU> wrote:
> > Hi there,
> >
> > I was wondering what people suggest
> > by way of pricing the following:
> >
> > I make handmade, hand bound and handlettered
> > books.
> > Every bit of text in my books are handlettered,
> > and it's all a hand-made job.
> > I make between three and five copies of each book
> > I do.
> > No more.
> >
> > I will shortly have enough different books
> > to put "out there" for sale, and was wondering
> > if anyone had any ideas on pricing??
> >
> > None of my books are mass-produced or
> > laser-printed or anything.
> > All 3-5 copies are original works of art,
> > often with original small artworks within each book.
> > ?????
> >
> > Any comments/ideas would be appreciated.
> > George.
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Never attribute to malice
> > what can be fear, pain or ignorance.
> > __________________________________________________
> >
>
> ===
> ***********************************************************
> leilx@yahoo.com or leilx@iname.com
> leil lucy alexander
> Malka, Irbid, Jordan
>
> The notion that an artist may call anything he likes ...
> a "book", because he says so, is the extreme of sloppy
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>    ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re: Pricings???
> Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 07:08:43 -0600
> From: Art_Rubino <Art_Rubino@MSN.COM>
>
> Books of this type are really Art/Craft objects.
> The proof of the pudding is in the eating, not in the
> making.
> The amount of time you spend making it is, unfortunately,
> irrelevant.
> There are binders who can spend 50 extra hours on a book
> because they do not have the right tools. This can not
> justify a price.
> Price is determined by the market acceptance of the item,
> not by the artisan.
> For an unknown craftsman or artist, prices will always be
> low.
> The items are subjective. You may consider your book
> to be worth $200. If there are no buyers, the market is
> telling you something.
> When you get a name, a track record, you can set your own
> price.
>
> If you have confidence in your work, try to put some out to
> auction
> at a Christies or Swann's or Sotheby's rare book & fine
> bindings sale.
> Then you will get an idea of the real market value of your
> work.
> Art
>
> Art Rubino & Co.
> Antiquarian Book Sellers
> Numismatic & Philatelic Arts of Santa Fe
> P.O. Box 9712
> Santa Fe, NM 87504  USA
> Phone  505 982 8792
> Fax      505 982 0291
> Email  Art_Rubino@msn.com
>
> We are always interested in buying fine used
> Numismatic,  Philatelic & Collectibles books.
>
> In the United Kingdom
> Art Rubino & Co.
> Antiquarian Booksellers
> 233 Wandsworth Bridge Road
> London SW6 2TU
> Phone  44 171 731 2919
> Fax       44 171 610 6930
> Mobile  44 468 301 890
>
> Catalogues Available By Email
> Sent in Win 95/Word 6.0 Format unless you specify.
> Numismatic Books  Pt I  Ancient, Byz. & Medievel. 80 pp.
> Numismatic Books Pt II  Modern Era [post 1400] 60 pp.
> Numismatic Sales Catalogues & Fixed Price Lists
> Treasure [Numismatic] Books. Cobs, diving for treasure.
> Philatelic Books
> Ancient & Modern History, Bank History, Military History
> Archaeology Books
> Collectibles Books. Porcelain, antiques, rare artifacts.
> Modern First Editions & Literature  [under construction]
> Magic & Divination, Handwriting, Palm Reading, Dreams
> Conservation Supplies for Collectors
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: leil lucy alexander <leilx@YAHOO.COM>
> To: BOOK_ARTS-L@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU
> <BOOK_ARTS-L@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU>
> Date: Thursday, April 15, 1999 5:33 AM
> Subject: Re: Pricings???
>
>
> >this made me smile because it is one I have long tried
> >to get some reasonable answer to. I had two teachers
> >who I respected a lot and here is what I got:
> >1-make sure you are making a reasonable amount of
> >money on each--calculate your time, materials and pay
> >yourself decently. of course, I quickly discovered
> >this makes the books horrifically expensive, as you
> >may too. this teacher, by the way, didn't really
> >produce artist bookworks for sale, but mostly did
> >commissions.
> >2-my other teacher, who produced artist bookworks all
> >the time, priced them according to how well he liked
> >them. if he liked them a lot, you had to pay more. his
> >editions were never more than 7. one which he liked a
> >lot cost 100 British pounds. but he also took into
> >account the market, of which he was a fairly good
> >judge having sold for years.
> >3-with my own work, I take into account the materials
> >cost and make sure that I am making back that much at
> >least. my last book was so time consuming that there
> >was no reasonable way of making money on it so I
> >picked a number with the help of some friends that
> >seemed reasonable. I have also been known to have a
> >sliding scale or trade thing for other artists/close
> >friends, but as much as possible I try to stick to the
> >quoted price and in no case would I ever sell to one
> >collecter/library for less than I sold to another. the
> >sliding scale/trade thing is strictly informal/private
> >and for people who can't afford under any
> >circumstances to pay collector price but who express a
> >genuine desire for the book.
> >
> >I too would be interested in hearing about how others
> >price and any other arrangements that they make for
> >distributing their books.
> >
> >
> >--- George <gender@RAINBOW.NET.AU> wrote:
> >> Hi there,
> >>
> >> I was wondering what people suggest
> >> by way of pricing the following:
> >>
> >> I make handmade, hand bound and handlettered
> >> books.
> >> Every bit of text in my books are handlettered,
> >> and it's all a hand-made job.
> >> I make between three and five copies of each book
> >> I do.
> >> No more.
> >>
> >> I will shortly have enough different books
> >> to put "out there" for sale, and was wondering
> >> if anyone had any ideas on pricing??
> >>
> >> None of my books are mass-produced or
> >> laser-printed or anything.
> >> All 3-5 copies are original works of art,
> >> often with original small artworks within each book.
> >> ?????
> >>
> >> Any comments/ideas would be appreciated.
> >> George.
> >>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >> Never attribute to malice
> >> what can be fear, pain or ignorance.
> >> __________________________________________________
> >>
> >
> >===
> >***********************************************************
> >leilx@yahoo.com or leilx@iname.com
> >leil lucy alexander
> >Malka, Irbid, Jordan
> >
> >The notion that an artist may call anything he likes ...
> >a "book", because he says so, is the extreme of sloppy
> >_________________________________________________________
> >Do You Yahoo!?
> >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
>
>    ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: greetings
> Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 08:12:20 PDT
> From: jen mccleary <jenmccleary@HOTMAIL.COM>
>
> Hi everyone...I'm new to this list so I thought I'd introduce
> myself...My name is Jen McCleary, I'm currently a senior
> Painting/Printmaking major at Tyler School of Art in Philadelphia...I
> primarially work in book form, although this really doesn't fit into
> my classes- there are no bookmaking classes here. So I'm just doing
> stuff on my own...I'm graduating in May and I'd appreciate any advice
> anyone could give me about selling/showing bookworks and also any
> resources (organizations, schools, etc...) which might be helpful to
> me...Thanks! Jen
>
> _______________________________________________________________
> Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
>
>    ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re: pricing
> Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 12:22:39 +0000
> From: sonja larsen <sonjanps@USLINK.NET>
>
> Just two reminders:  #1 -- always keep one copy of your work, and try
> to
> build its cost into the others which you sell.
>
> #2 --If you are very fond/proud of one of your editions, price the
> books
> at a price high enough,  that the $$ are worth more to you than the
> edition.  Sometimes there's a magic price point to customers, and
> sometimes it works to UP the price rather than take it down.  Just
> make
> sure you stay within some boundaries of what all limited editions
> cost.
>
>    ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re: Quotations?
> Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 12:30:19 -0500
> From: Anne-Dorothee Boehme <aboehme@ARTIC.EDU>
>
> Kimberly,
> if you send me your mailing address I'll send you the brochure for a
> show
> that will open tomorrow, 5 pm at the Betty Rymer Gallery/SAIC in
> Chicago.
>
> (THIS SERVES AT SAME TIME AS AN INVITATION TO EVERYBODY HERE IN THE
> CHICAGO
> AREA).
>
> We've filled the gallery walls with artists' book-related quotations
> (and
> reprinted them in the brochure), not only to have them resemble book
> pages
> but mainly to help the visitor get a better sense of all the
> discussion
> that has been revolving around this type of artistic production.
> I can send you about 80 quotations (with bibliographic information)
> that we
> selected and that were compiled from all kinds of articles, reference
> books
> and catalogs.
>
> Best,  Doro
>
>
> At 02:10 PM 4/13/99 -0500, you wrote:
> >Hi folks,
> >
> >Does anyone have a good resource for book-related quotations?
> >
> >Thanks in advance,
> >Kimberly
> >
> >
> >
> >So MUCH Art...So little Time.
> >
> >
> ============================================================================
> ====
>
> AnneDorothee Boehme, curator/librarian
> Joan Flasch Artists' Book Collection
> John M Flaxman Library/School of the Art Institute of Chicago
> 37 S Wabash Av
> Chicago, Il 60603
>
> 312-899-5098 ( voice )
> 312-899-1465 ( fax )
> aboehme@artic.edu
> http://www.artic.edu/saic/flaxman/flasch.html
>
>    ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Regarding gold foil
> Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 19:49:36 +0100
> From: Brown <03643518060-0001@T-ONLINE.DE>
>
> Dear list members,
>
> I have recently aquired some new real goldfoil from Schmedt here in
> Germany. Although it works really well and looks quite nice, it is not
> responding to well with regards to clean up.
>
> The gold foil I am used to is what I had in the states which cleaned
> up
> really fine with a pearl eraser and my finger. This new foil only
> comes
> "clean" after a lot of work with the eraser. I have also noticed that
> it
> starts to scratch the surface before the gold itself clear.
>
> Has anyone had similiar problems? What do you use to remove excess
> foil
> in such stubborn circumstances? Or just plain any old ideas you have
> to
> help. I've only just begun using this foil since my supply from the
> U.S.
> wore out.
>
> In your debt for being so helpful...
> and kind regards,
> Chris
>
>    ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re: Regarding gold foil
> Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 14:25:35 EDT
> From: "Eric C. Alstrom" <Eric.C.Alstrom@DARTMOUTH.EDU>
>
> Something we used to use at the bindery I used to work for was
> ammonia,
> specifically, Bo Peep brand (I always loved that name and the picture
> of Little
> Bo Peep and her sheep).
>
> This would, as I remember, be used to clean up mistakes or large
> patches of
> unwanted gold. I think it loosens the adhesive under the gold, so be
> careful
> when you use it and don't remove what you don't want to.
>
> Eric
>
> *****************************************
>  Eric Alstrom
>  Collections Conservator
>  Dartmouth College
>  Hanover, NH
>
>  603-646-1452
>  eric.c.alstrom@dartmouth.edu
>  http://www.dartmouth.edu/~ealstrom
> *****************************************
>
>    ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re: regarding gold foil
> Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 12:42:18 -0600
> From: Fishburn - Gerety Household <gerety@VERINET.COM>
>
> hey
> there is a product called "un-du" which is marketed as an "adhesive
> remover"
> i have personally used it to remove photographs, artwork on different
> papers and so forth
> from whatever they were attached to, with no damaging of said items
> WHATSOEVER
> i don't know if it could work on the gold foil. . .
> the only listed ingredient is heptane
> the small bottle i have lists the manufacturer as Doumar Products
> there is a phone #: 1-888-buy-undu
> sarah fishburn
>
>    ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re: Regarding gold foil
> Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:25:16 -0600
> From: KT Pardue <ktp43@PRODIGY.NET>
>
> Whenever I have had trouble with stubborn excess gold around stampings
> and
> tooling it is because the heat was too high and the dwell-time was too
> long.
> I don't know if these apply to you. I just thought I would approach
> the
> problem from a preventative side.:)
>
> KT Pardue
> WhiteRiver Studio
>
>    ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Book Fair Notification
> Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 15:53:52 -0400
> From: Clarke Otten <abecinc@BELLSOUTH.NET>
>
> The Georgia Antiquarian Book Fair
> June 18 & 19, 1999
> Atlanta, Ga. USA
>
> For more info visit: georgiabookfair.org
>    ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: brochure w/ quotations
> Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 15:52:45 -0500
> From: Anne-Dorothee Boehme <aboehme@ARTIC.EDU>
>
> To all the folks that have emailed me today and would like to get a
> brochure for the "A Book Is Not A Book Is Not A Book" -show please
> call
> Claire Ashley at the Betty Rymer Gallery (312-332-5859) or email her
> at
> cashley@artic.edu.
> She'll be happy to send you one.
> I have just overspent my postage budget.
>
> Doro
>
> ============================================================================
> ====
>
> AnneDorothee Boehme, curator/librarian
> Joan Flasch Artists' Book Collection
> John M Flaxman Library/School of the Art Institute of Chicago
> 37 S Wabash Av
> Chicago, Il 60603
>
> 312-899-5098 ( voice )
> 312-899-1465 ( fax )
> aboehme@artic.edu
> http://www.artic.edu/saic/flaxman/flasch.html
>
>    ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re: brochure w/ quotations
> Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 17:15:50 -0400
> From: "Peter D. Verheyen" <pdverhey@DREAMSCAPE.COM>
>
> On that subject, it just occured to me that you might also find some
> interesting things which were said/written during out hugh "artist's
> book"
> debate last Spring. It's compiled into one big file (not too big
> really) at
> the top of the links section of the Book Arts Web. URL in message
> header
> above and my sig file below.
>
> p.
>
>                                 >>> I loved working in the library.
> <<<
> >>There was something to be said for working in a place bound in
> leather.<<
>
> Peter D. Verheyen
> <Email>
> mailto:pdverhey@dreamscape.com
> <Webmaster: Book Arts Web>
> http://www.dreamscape.com/pdverhey
> <Listowner: Book_Arts-L>
> Mailto:Book_Arts-L-request@listserv.syr.edu
>
>    ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Quotations
> Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 17:54:29 -0400
> From: Loud Creek Books & Bindery <loudcreek@WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
>
> Those interested might also try to find:
>
>
> GRAFFAGNINO, J. Kevin. Only in Books. Writers, Readers, & Bibliophiles
> on
> Their Passion
>
> and
>
> A book in the hand is worth two in the Library (I can not remember the
> editor of this book)
>
>
>
> Best day
>
> Mark Hammersmith
> Loud Creek Books & Bindery
> P.O. Box 405
> Ballentine, SC    29002
> 803.749.7893
> loudcreek@worldnet.att.net
>
>    ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re: Regarding gold foil
> Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 17:58:25 EDT
> From: DT Fletcher <FletcherOR@AOL.COM>
>
> In a message dated 4/15/99 12:27:12 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> ktp43@PRODIGY.NET writes:
>
> << Whenever I have had trouble with stubborn excess gold around
> stampings and
>  tooling it is because the heat was too high and the dwell-time was
> too long.
> >>
>
> I have gold stamped many hundreds of books at this point and I am just
> finally getting a real feel for it. Over time, have found that what
> usually
> works best is to use a temperature near the top range of the foil
> capability
> and to finesse the stamping, ie, hit it hard and short.  Note: this is
> for
> Unibind covers and Kwikprint BK gold tape.
>
> The other really key thing is to have the stamp absolutely parallel
> with the
> item to be stamped.  It can be a real bear sometimes to line
> everything up,
> but it's the only way to get an even sharp stamping.
> dt fletcher
>
>    ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Book Arts Jamboree
> Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 19:09:09 -0400
> From: Susan Kapuscinski Gaylord <sgaylord@SEACOAST.COM>
>
> Dear Friends
>     I'm not sure if Ed Hutchins has made any postings about the Book
> Arts Jamboree which he is putting on in the Catskills in Ny this
> summer,
> but as I will be teaching there, I thought I'd put in a plug. There
> will
> be three separate one week sessions:
>
> Bookmaking Adventures in the Classroom, July 18-23- I'll be doing
> Making
> Books From Around the Word and Across the Curriculum. Other
> instructors
> will be Joan Irvine on pop-ups, Gloria Zmolek on hand papermaking, and
> Dennis Stovall on publishing. It's set up so that you spend an equal
> amount of time with each of us
>
> Exploring Structure and Content, July 25-30- Susan Share, Emily
> Martin,
> Katherine Ng, and Berwyn Hung
>
> Making Better Books, August 1-6- Carol Barton, Marylee Bytheriver,
> Gordon Fluke, and Melissa Potter
>
>     If anyone has any questions about my portion of week 1, I'd be
> happy
> to answer. If you have questions about the Jamboree, contact
> jamboree@artistsbook.com. The programs are all exciting, the cost very
> reasonable for what you get, and there are still spaces.
>
> in good spirit,
> Susan
>
>    ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re: greetings
> Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 19:41:10 +0000
> From: Douglas Harris <beebalm@BELLATLANTIC.NET>
>
> The University of the Arts in Philly offers classes in bookbinding
> both
> for full time students and as continuing ed classes. I just finished a
> continuing "Intro" course which was great for the basics and a little
> beyond.
>
>    ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: mixed media books
> Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 19:52:44 -0700
> From: Beata E Wehr <beata@U.ARIZONA.EDU>
>
> I want to invite everybody to see my exhibition of mixed media books
> at
> the University of Arizona Museum of Art (until 5th of May 1999)
> in Tucson
>  or to look
> at some of them in the "ARTMargins" magazine - Artist View
> (A forum for contemporary eastern/central european visual culture)
> http://www.gss.ucsb.edu/artmargins.
>
> Beata Wehr
>

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1999 to 15 Apr 1999</nobr>
<br><nobr><b>Date: </b>Fri, 16 Apr 1999 00:02:33 -0400</nobr>
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<pre WRAP>There are 17 messages totalling 649 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

&nbsp; 1. Pricings??? (2)
&nbsp; 2. greetings (2)
&nbsp; 3. pricing
&nbsp; 4. Quotations?
&nbsp; 5. Regarding gold foil (4)
&nbsp; 6. regarding gold foil
&nbsp; 7. Book Fair Notification
&nbsp; 8. brochure w/ quotations (2)
&nbsp; 9. Quotations
&nbsp;10. Book Arts Jamboree
&nbsp;11. mixed media books</pre>

<hr WIDTH="90%" SIZE=4>
<p><nobr><b>Subject: </b>Re: Pricings???</nobr>
<br><nobr><b>Date: </b>Thu, 15 Apr 1999 04:27:30 -0700</nobr>
<br><nobr><b>From: </b>leil lucy alexander &lt;leilx@YAHOO.COM></nobr>
<pre WRAP>this made me smile because it is one I have long tried
to get some reasonable answer to. I had two teachers
who I respected a lot and here is what I got:
1-make sure you are making a reasonable amount of
money on each--calculate your time, materials and pay
yourself decently. of course, I quickly discovered
this makes the books horrifically expensive, as you
may too. this teacher, by the way, didn't really
produce artist bookworks for sale, but mostly did
commissions.
2-my other teacher, who produced artist bookworks all
the time, priced them according to how well he liked
them. if he liked them a lot, you had to pay more. his
editions were never more than 7. one which he liked a
lot cost 100 British pounds. but he also took into
account the market, of which he was a fairly good
judge having sold for years.
3-with my own work, I take into account the materials
cost and make sure that I am making back that much at
least. my last book was so time consuming that there
was no reasonable way of making money on it so I
picked a number with the help of some friends that
seemed reasonable. I have also been known to have a
sliding scale or trade thing for other artists/close
friends, but as much as possible I try to stick to the
quoted price and in no case would I ever sell to one
collecter/library for less than I sold to another. the
sliding scale/trade thing is strictly informal/private
and for people who can't afford under any
circumstances to pay collector price but who express a
genuine desire for the book.

I too would be interested in hearing about how others
price and any other arrangements that they make for
distributing their books.


--- George &lt;gender@RAINBOW.NET.AU> wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> I was wondering what people suggest
> by way of pricing the following:
>
> I make handmade, hand bound and handlettered
> books.
> Every bit of text in my books are handlettered,
> and it's all a hand-made job.
> I make between three and five copies of each book
> I do.
> No more.
>
> I will shortly have enough different books
> to put "out there" for sale, and was wondering
> if anyone had any ideas on pricing??
>
> None of my books are mass-produced or
> laser-printed or anything.
> All 3-5 copies are original works of art,
> often with original small artworks within each book.
> ?????
>
> Any comments/ideas would be appreciated.
> George.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Never attribute to malice
> what can be fear, pain or ignorance.
> __________________________________________________
>

===
***********************************************************
leilx@yahoo.com or leilx@iname.com
leil lucy alexander
Malka, Irbid, Jordan

The notion that an artist may call anything he likes ...
a "book", because he says so, is the extreme of sloppy
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at <a href="http://mail.yahoo.com">http://mail.yahoo.com</a></pre>

<hr WIDTH="90%" SIZE=4>
<p><nobr><b>Subject: </b>Re: Pricings???</nobr>
<br><nobr><b>Date: </b>Thu, 15 Apr 1999 07:08:43 -0600</nobr>
<br><nobr><b>From: </b>Art_Rubino &lt;Art_Rubino@MSN.COM></nobr>
<pre WRAP>Books of this type are really Art/Craft objects.
The proof of the pudding is in the eating, not in the
making.
The amount of time you spend making it is, unfortunately,
irrelevant.
There are binders who can spend 50 extra hours on a book
because they do not have the right tools. This can not
justify a price.
Price is determined by the market acceptance of the item,
not by the artisan.
For an unknown craftsman or artist, prices will always be
low.
The items are subjective. You may consider your book
to be worth $200. If there are no buyers, the market is
telling you something.
When you get a name, a track record, you can set your own
price.

If you have confidence in your work, try to put some out to
auction
at a Christies or Swann's or Sotheby's rare book &amp; fine
bindings sale.
Then you will get an idea of the real market value of your
work.
Art

Art Rubino &amp; Co.
Antiquarian Book Sellers
Numismatic &amp; Philatelic Arts of Santa Fe
P.O. Box 9712
Santa Fe, NM 87504&nbsp; USA
Phone&nbsp; 505 982 8792
Fax&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 505 982 0291
Email&nbsp; Art_Rubino@msn.com

We are always interested in buying fine used
Numismatic,&nbsp; Philatelic &amp; Collectibles books.

In the United Kingdom
Art Rubino &amp; Co.
Antiquarian Booksellers
233 Wandsworth Bridge Road
London SW6 2TU
Phone&nbsp; 44 171 731 2919
Fax&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 44 171 610 6930
Mobile&nbsp; 44 468 301 890

Catalogues Available By Email
Sent in Win 95/Word 6.0 Format unless you specify.
Numismatic Books&nbsp; Pt I&nbsp; Ancient, Byz. &amp; Medievel. 80 pp.
Numismatic Books Pt II&nbsp; Modern Era [post 1400] 60 pp.
Numismatic Sales Catalogues &amp; Fixed Price Lists
Treasure [Numismatic] Books. Cobs, diving for treasure.
Philatelic Books
Ancient &amp; Modern History, Bank History, Military History
Archaeology Books
Collectibles Books. Porcelain, antiques, rare artifacts.
Modern First Editions &amp; Literature&nbsp; [under construction]
Magic &amp; Divination, Handwriting, Palm Reading, Dreams
Conservation Supplies for Collectors

-----Original Message-----
From: leil lucy alexander &lt;leilx@YAHOO.COM>
To: BOOK_ARTS-L@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU
&lt;BOOK_ARTS-L@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU>
Date: Thursday, April 15, 1999 5:33 AM
Subject: Re: Pricings???


>this made me smile because it is one I have long tried
>to get some reasonable answer to. I had two teachers
>who I respected a lot and here is what I got:
>1-make sure you are making a reasonable amount of
>money on each--calculate your time, materials and pay
>yourself decently. of course, I quickly discovered
>this makes the books horrifically expensive, as you
>may too. this teacher, by the way, didn't really
>produce artist bookworks for sale, but mostly did
>commissions.
>2-my other teacher, who produced artist bookworks all
>the time, priced them according to how well he liked
>them. if he liked them a lot, you had to pay more. his
>editions were never more than 7. one which he liked a
>lot cost 100 British pounds. but he also took into
>account the market, of which he was a fairly good
>judge having sold for years.
>3-with my own work, I take into account the materials
>cost and make sure that I am making back that much at
>least. my last book was so time consuming that there
>was no reasonable way of making money on it so I
>picked a number with the help of some friends that
>seemed reasonable. I have also been known to have a
>sliding scale or trade thing for other artists/close
>friends, but as much as possible I try to stick to the
>quoted price and in no case would I ever sell to one
>collecter/library for less than I sold to another. the
>sliding scale/trade thing is strictly informal/private
>and for people who can't afford under any
>circumstances to pay collector price but who express a
>genuine desire for the book.
>
>I too would be interested in hearing about how others
>price and any other arrangements that they make for
>distributing their books.
>
>
>--- George &lt;gender@RAINBOW.NET.AU> wrote:
>> Hi there,
>>
>> I was wondering what people suggest
>> by way of pricing the following:
>>
>> I make handmade, hand bound and handlettered
>> books.
>> Every bit of text in my books are handlettered,
>> and it's all a hand-made job.
>> I make between three and five copies of each book
>> I do.
>> No more.
>>
>> I will shortly have enough different books
>> to put "out there" for sale, and was wondering
>> if anyone had any ideas on pricing??
>>
>> None of my books are mass-produced or
>> laser-printed or anything.
>> All 3-5 copies are original works of art,
>> often with original small artworks within each book.
>> ?????
>>
>> Any comments/ideas would be appreciated.
>> George.
>>
>> __________________________________________________
>> Never attribute to malice
>> what can be fear, pain or ignorance.
>> __________________________________________________
>>
>
>===
>***********************************************************
>leilx@yahoo.com or leilx@iname.com
>leil lucy alexander
>Malka, Irbid, Jordan
>
>The notion that an artist may call anything he likes ...
>a "book", because he says so, is the extreme of sloppy
>_________________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Get your free @yahoo.com address at <a href="http://mail.yahoo.com">http://mail.yahoo.com
</a>></pre>

<hr WIDTH="90%" SIZE=4>
<p><nobr><b>Subject: </b>greetings</nobr>
<br><nobr><b>Date: </b>Thu, 15 Apr 1999 08:12:20 PDT</nobr>
<br><nobr><b>From: </b>jen mccleary &lt;jenmccleary@HOTMAIL.COM></nobr>
<pre WRAP>Hi everyone...I'm new to this list so I thought I'd introduce
myself...My name is Jen McCleary, I'm currently a senior
Painting/Printmaking major at Tyler School of Art in Philadelphia...I
primarially work in book form, although this really doesn't fit into
my classes- there are no bookmaking classes here. So I'm just doing
stuff on my own...I'm graduating in May and I'd appreciate any advice
anyone could give me about selling/showing bookworks and also any
resources (organizations, schools, etc...) which might be helpful to
me...Thanks! Jen

_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit <a href="http://www.msn.com">http://www.msn.com</a></pre>

<hr WIDTH="90%" SIZE=4>
<p><nobr><b>Subject: </b>Re: pricing</nobr>
<br><nobr><b>Date: </b>Thu, 15 Apr 1999 12:22:39 +0000</nobr>
<br><nobr><b>From: </b>sonja larsen &lt;sonjanps@USLINK.NET></nobr>
<pre WRAP>Just two reminders:&nbsp; #1 -- always keep one copy of your work, and try to
build its cost into the others which you sell.

#2 --If you are very fond/proud of one of your editions, price the books
at a price high enough,&nbsp; that the $$ are worth more to you than the
edition.&nbsp; Sometimes there's a magic price point to customers, and
sometimes it works to UP the price rather than take it down.&nbsp; Just make
sure you stay within some boundaries of what all limited editions cost.</pre>

<hr WIDTH="90%" SIZE=4>
<p><nobr><b>Subject: </b>Re: Quotations?</nobr>
<br><nobr><b>Date: </b>Thu, 15 Apr 1999 12:30:19 -0500</nobr>
<br><nobr><b>From: </b>Anne-Dorothee Boehme &lt;aboehme@ARTIC.EDU></nobr>
<pre WRAP>Kimberly,
if you send me your mailing address I'll send you the brochure for a show
that will open tomorrow, 5 pm at the Betty Rymer Gallery/SAIC in Chicago.

(THIS SERVES AT SAME TIME AS AN INVITATION TO EVERYBODY HERE IN THE CHICAGO
AREA).

We've filled the gallery walls with artists' book-related quotations (and
reprinted them in the brochure), not only to have them resemble book pages
but mainly to help the visitor get a better sense of all the discussion
that has been revolving around this type of artistic production.
I can send you about 80 quotations (with bibliographic information) that we
selected and that were compiled from all kinds of articles, reference books
and catalogs.

Best,&nbsp; Doro


At 02:10 PM 4/13/99 -0500, you wrote:
>Hi folks,
>
>Does anyone have a good resource for book-related quotations?
>
>Thanks in advance,
>Kimberly
>
>
>
>So MUCH Art...So little Time.
>
>
============================================================================
====

AnneDorothee Boehme, curator/librarian
Joan Flasch Artists' Book Collection
John M Flaxman Library/School of the Art Institute of Chicago
37 S Wabash Av
Chicago, Il 60603

312-899-5098 ( voice )
312-899-1465 ( fax )
aboehme@artic.edu
<a href="http://www.artic.edu/saic/flaxman/flasch.html">http://www.artic.edu/saic/flaxman/flasch.html</a></pre>

<hr WIDTH="90%" SIZE=4>
<p><nobr><b>Subject: </b>Regarding gold foil</nobr>
<br><nobr><b>Date: </b>Thu, 15 Apr 1999 19:49:36 +0100</nobr>
<br><nobr><b>From: </b>Brown &lt;03643518060-0001@T-ONLINE.DE></nobr>
<pre WRAP>Dear list members,

I have recently aquired some new real goldfoil from Schmedt here in
Germany. Although it works really well and looks quite nice, it is not
responding to well with regards to clean up.

The gold foil I am used to is what I had in the states which cleaned up
really fine with a pearl eraser and my finger. This new foil only comes
"clean" after a lot of work with the eraser. I have also noticed that it
starts to scratch the surface before the gold itself clear.

Has anyone had similiar problems? What do you use to remove excess foil
in such stubborn circumstances? Or just plain any old ideas you have to
help. I've only just begun using this foil since my supply from the U.S.
wore out.

In your debt for being so helpful...
and kind regards,
Chris</pre>

<hr WIDTH="90%" SIZE=4>
<p><nobr><b>Subject: </b>Re: Regarding gold foil</nobr>
<br><nobr><b>Date: </b>Thu, 15 Apr 1999 14:25:35 EDT</nobr>
<br><nobr><b>From: </b>"Eric C. Alstrom" &lt;Eric.C.Alstrom@DARTMOUTH.EDU></nobr>
<pre WRAP>Something we used to use at the bindery I used to work for was ammonia,
specifically, Bo Peep brand (I always loved that name and the picture of Little
Bo Peep and her sheep).

This would, as I remember, be used to clean up mistakes or large patches of
unwanted gold. I think it loosens the adhesive under the gold, so be careful
when you use it and don't remove what you don't want to.

Eric

*****************************************
&nbsp;Eric Alstrom
&nbsp;Collections Conservator
&nbsp;Dartmouth College
&nbsp;Hanover, NH

&nbsp;603-646-1452
&nbsp;eric.c.alstrom@dartmouth.edu
&nbsp;<a href="http://www.dartmouth.edu/~ealstrom">http://www.dartmouth.edu/~ealstrom
</a>*****************************************</pre>

<hr WIDTH="90%" SIZE=4>
<p><nobr><b>Subject: </b>Re: regarding gold foil</nobr>
<br><nobr><b>Date: </b>Thu, 15 Apr 1999 12:42:18 -0600</nobr>
<br><nobr><b>From: </b>Fishburn - Gerety Household &lt;gerety@VERINET.COM></nobr>
<pre WRAP>hey
there is a product called "un-du" which is marketed as an "adhesive remover"
i have personally used it to remove photographs, artwork on different
papers and so forth
from whatever they were attached to, with no damaging of said items WHATSOEVER
i don't know if it could work on the gold foil. . .
the only listed ingredient is heptane
the small bottle i have lists the manufacturer as Doumar Products
there is a phone #: 1-888-buy-undu
sarah fishburn</pre>

<hr WIDTH="90%" SIZE=4>
<p><nobr><b>Subject: </b>Re: Regarding gold foil</nobr>
<br><nobr><b>Date: </b>Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:25:16 -0600</nobr>
<br><nobr><b>From: </b>KT Pardue &lt;ktp43@PRODIGY.NET></nobr>
<pre WRAP>Whenever I have had trouble with stubborn excess gold around stampings and
tooling it is because the heat was too high and the dwell-time was too long.
I don't know if these apply to you. I just thought I would approach the
problem from a preventative side.:)

KT Pardue
WhiteRiver Studio</pre>

<hr WIDTH="90%" SIZE=4>
<p><nobr><b>Subject: </b>Book Fair Notification</nobr>
<br><nobr><b>Date: </b>Thu, 15 Apr 1999 15:53:52 -0400</nobr>
<br><nobr><b>From: </b>Clarke Otten &lt;abecinc@BELLSOUTH.NET></nobr>
<p><font color="#990000"><font size=+2>The Georgia Antiquarian Book Fair</font></font>
<br>June 18 &amp; 19, 1999
<br>Atlanta, Ga. USA
<p>For more info visit: <a href="georgiabookfair.org">georgiabookfair.org</a>
<hr WIDTH="90%" SIZE=4>
<p><nobr><b>Subject: </b>brochure w/ quotations</nobr>
<br><nobr><b>Date: </b>Thu, 15 Apr 1999 15:52:45 -0500</nobr>
<br><nobr><b>From: </b>Anne-Dorothee Boehme &lt;aboehme@ARTIC.EDU></nobr>
<pre WRAP>To all the folks that have emailed me today and would like to get a
brochure for the "A Book Is Not A Book Is Not A Book" -show please call
Claire Ashley at the Betty Rymer Gallery (312-332-5859) or email her at
cashley@artic.edu.
She'll be happy to send you one.
I have just overspent my postage budget.

Doro

============================================================================
====

AnneDorothee Boehme, curator/librarian
Joan Flasch Artists' Book Collection
John M Flaxman Library/School of the Art Institute of Chicago
37 S Wabash Av
Chicago, Il 60603

312-899-5098 ( voice )
312-899-1465 ( fax )
aboehme@artic.edu
<a href="http://www.artic.edu/saic/flaxman/flasch.html">http://www.artic.edu/saic/flaxman/flasch.html</a></pre>

<hr WIDTH="90%" SIZE=4>
<p><nobr><b>Subject: </b>Re: brochure w/ quotations</nobr>
<br><nobr><b>Date: </b>Thu, 15 Apr 1999 17:15:50 -0400</nobr>
<br><nobr><b>From: </b>"Peter D. Verheyen" &lt;pdverhey@DREAMSCAPE.COM></nobr>
<pre WRAP>On that subject, it just occured to me that you might also find some
interesting things which were said/written during out hugh "artist's book"
debate last Spring. It's compiled into one big file (not too big really) at
the top of the links section of the Book Arts Web. URL in message header
above and my sig file below.

p.

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; >>> I loved working in the library. &lt;&lt;&lt;
>>There was something to be said for working in a place bound in leather.&lt;&lt;

Peter D. Verheyen
&lt;Email>
<a href="mailto:pdverhey@dreamscape.com">mailto:pdverhey@dreamscape.com
</a>&lt;Webmaster: Book Arts Web>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href="http://www.dreamscape.com/pdverhey">http://www.dreamscape.com/pdverhey
</a>&lt;Listowner: Book_Arts-L>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href="Mailto:Book_Arts-L-request@listserv.syr.edu">Mailto:Book_Arts-L-request@listserv.syr.edu</a></pre>

<hr WIDTH="90%" SIZE=4>
<p><nobr><b>Subject: </b>Quotations</nobr>
<br><nobr><b>Date: </b>Thu, 15 Apr 1999 17:54:29 -0400</nobr>
<br><nobr><b>From: </b>Loud Creek Books &amp; Bindery &lt;loudcreek@WORLDNET.ATT.NET></nobr>
<pre WRAP>Those interested might also try to find:


GRAFFAGNINO, J. Kevin. Only in Books. Writers, Readers, &amp; Bibliophiles on
Their Passion

and

A book in the hand is worth two in the Library (I can not remember the
editor of this book)



Best day

Mark Hammersmith
Loud Creek Books &amp; Bindery
P.O. Box 405
Ballentine, SC&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 29002
803.749.7893
loudcreek@worldnet.att.net</pre>

<hr WIDTH="90%" SIZE=4>
<p><nobr><b>Subject: </b>Re: Regarding gold foil</nobr>
<br><nobr><b>Date: </b>Thu, 15 Apr 1999 17:58:25 EDT</nobr>
<br><nobr><b>From: </b>DT Fletcher &lt;FletcherOR@AOL.COM></nobr>
<pre WRAP>In a message dated 4/15/99 12:27:12 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
ktp43@PRODIGY.NET writes:

&lt;&lt; Whenever I have had trouble with stubborn excess gold around stampings and
&nbsp;tooling it is because the heat was too high and the dwell-time was too long.
>>

I have gold stamped many hundreds of books at this point and I am just
finally getting a real feel for it. Over time, have found that what usually
works best is to use a temperature near the top range of the foil capability
and to finesse the stamping, ie, hit it hard and short.&nbsp; Note: this is for
Unibind covers and Kwikprint BK gold tape.

The other really key thing is to have the stamp absolutely parallel with the
item to be stamped.&nbsp; It can be a real bear sometimes to line everything up,
but it's the only way to get an even sharp stamping.
dt fletcher</pre>

<hr WIDTH="90%" SIZE=4>
<p><nobr><b>Subject: </b>Book Arts Jamboree</nobr>
<br><nobr><b>Date: </b>Thu, 15 Apr 1999 19:09:09 -0400</nobr>
<br><nobr><b>From: </b>Susan Kapuscinski Gaylord &lt;sgaylord@SEACOAST.COM></nobr>
<pre WRAP>Dear Friends
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I'm not sure if Ed Hutchins has made any postings about the Book
Arts Jamboree which he is putting on in the Catskills in Ny this summer,
but as I will be teaching there, I thought I'd put in a plug. There will
be three separate one week sessions:

Bookmaking Adventures in the Classroom, July 18-23- I'll be doing Making
Books From Around the Word and Across the Curriculum. Other instructors
will be Joan Irvine on pop-ups, Gloria Zmolek on hand papermaking, and
Dennis Stovall on publishing. It's set up so that you spend an equal
amount of time with each of us

Exploring Structure and Content, July 25-30- Susan Share, Emily Martin,
Katherine Ng, and Berwyn Hung

Making Better Books, August 1-6- Carol Barton, Marylee Bytheriver,
Gordon Fluke, and Melissa Potter

&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; If anyone has any questions about my portion of week 1, I'd be happy
to answer. If you have questions about the Jamboree, contact
jamboree@artistsbook.com. The programs are all exciting, the cost very
reasonable for what you get, and there are still spaces.

in good spirit,
Susan</pre>

<hr WIDTH="90%" SIZE=4>
<p><nobr><b>Subject: </b>Re: greetings</nobr>
<br><nobr><b>Date: </b>Thu, 15 Apr 1999 19:41:10 +0000</nobr>
<br><nobr><b>From: </b>Douglas Harris &lt;beebalm@BELLATLANTIC.NET></nobr>
<pre WRAP>The University of the Arts in Philly offers classes in bookbinding both
for full time students and as continuing ed classes. I just finished a
continuing "Intro" course which was great for the basics and a little
beyond.</pre>

<hr WIDTH="90%" SIZE=4>
<p><nobr><b>Subject: </b>mixed media books</nobr>
<br><nobr><b>Date: </b>Thu, 15 Apr 1999 19:52:44 -0700</nobr>
<br><nobr><b>From: </b>Beata E Wehr &lt;beata@U.ARIZONA.EDU></nobr>
<pre WRAP>I want to invite everybody to see my exhibition of mixed media books at
the University of Arizona Museum of Art (until 5th of May 1999)
in Tucson
&nbsp;or to look
at some of them in the "ARTMargins" magazine - Artist View
(A forum for contemporary eastern/central european visual culture)
<a href="http://www.gss.ucsb.edu/artmargins">http://www.gss.ucsb.edu/artmargins</a>.

Beata Wehr</pre>
</blockquote>
</html>

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