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Re: [BKARTS] BOOK_ARTS-L Digest - 20 Jul 2002 to 21 Jul 2002 (#2002-199)



Book Central has moved!  Please note our new address and phone number.  It
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please visit our website at www.bookartscentral.com

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Thank you for your continued support!




> There are 12 messages totalling 418 lines in this issue.
>
> Topics of the day:
>
>   1. Strathmore Pastelle
>   2. coptic binding refresher needed (2)
>   3. Glue,binders board
>   4. Books in sheets
>   5. collaboration (2)
>   6. Hard metal foundry type for foil stamping
>   7. COLLABORATION (3)
>   8. BOOK_ARTS-L Digest - 19 Jul 2002 to 20 Jul 2002 (#2002-198)
>
>              ***********************************************
>             BOOK_ARTS-L: The listserv for all the book arts.
>       For subscription information, the Archive, and other related
>             resources and links go to the Book_Arts-L FAQ at:
>                       <http://www.philobiblon.com>
>
>         Archive maintained and suppported by Conservation OnLine
>                     <http://palimpsest.stanford.edu>
>              ***********************************************
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date:    Sat, 20 Jul 2002 13:29:39 -0700
> From:    Rose Davidson <rose.davidson@SHAW.CA>
> Subject: Re: Strathmore Pastelle
>
> I buy Strathmore Pastelle from Coast Paper in Vancouver. What weight are
> you interested in. I get it in both text weight and 65 lb.
>
>
> Katie Harper wrote:
>
> >Does anyone know of a source for Strathmore Pastelle paper in small (ie
less
> >than a carton) quantities at good prices?
> >
> >Thanks.
> >
> >
> >Katie Harper
> >Ars Brevis Press
> >Cincinnati, OH
> >513-233-9588
> >
> >             ***********************************************
> >            BOOK_ARTS-L: The listserv for all the book arts.
> >      For subscription information, the Archive, and other related
> >            resources and links go to the Book_Arts-L FAQ at:
> >                      <http://www.philobiblon.com>
> >
> >        Archive maintained and suppported by Conservation OnLine
> >                    <http://palimpsest.stanford.edu>
> >             ***********************************************
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Sun, 21 Jul 2002 11:03:51 -0400
> From:    kelsey woodward <kelsey.woodward@VALLEY.NET>
> Subject: coptic binding refresher needed
>
> Any suggestions as to where I can refresh my coptic binding skills either
a
> New England area class or through a book or other material?  Thanks
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Sat, 20 Jul 2002 12:11:42 EDT
> From:    Linda Bacon <LBacon1949@AOL.COM>
> Subject: Glue,binders board
>
> Where can I get the right kind of glue and binders board for making cases?
> Thanks
> Linda
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Sun, 21 Jul 2002 14:25:40 EDT
> From:    Claire Bolton <AlembicPrs@AOL.COM>
> Subject: Re: Books in sheets
>
> Most of the books we produce are also available in sheets. Indeed, the one
we
> did about a bookshop/bindery was deliberately so, to encourage people to
get
> the book bound in that particular bindery.
>
> Doesn't matter whether full-size or miniature - they still all get printed
on
> sheets, after all. I imagine most Private Presses would be happy to supply
> unbound sheets, though some might need advance notice.
>
> Mind you, some of our recent miniatures have a complex page construction
that
> makes it a bit unrealistic to supply in sheets, as one needs a detailed
> instruction on how to assemble the sheets. And a miniature Specimen Book
we
> hope to print before the MBS conclave is formed from a single sheet, 16
pages
> on each side. Being a single section book, there will not be much scope
for
> binding, because there isn't really a spine. But it will be available as
the
> single sheet, if required.
>
> David Bolton
> The Alembic Press, Oxford, UK
> http://members.aol.com/alembicprs/
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Sun, 21 Jul 2002 21:05:27 +0200
> From:    Peter Baumgartner <baumgartner.papierdesign@T-ONLINE.DE>
> Subject: Re: coptic binding refresher needed
>
> Kelsey,
>
> I published a computer-video on cd-rom about the coptic binding. The
> video shows step-by-step the punching of the holes into the board-cover
> and the complete sewing of the sheets. The video (avi, 240 x 320) has no
> sound, but illustrations and titles with comments (in german).
>
> You can see some screen-shots on my website:
> http://home.t-online.de/home/baumgartner.papierdesign/cd_kopt.html
>
> Peter
> --
> --------------------------------------------
> Atelier für Papierdesign
> Marie-Curie-Strasse 22
> 79100 Freiburg/Germany
> Tel: +49 (0)761 4097869
> Fax: +49 (0)761 4097763
>
> http://www.papierdesign.de
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Sun, 21 Jul 2002 17:12:33 -0400
> From:    Ann Grasso <A@AEGRASSO.COM>
> Subject: collaboration
>
> Is it possible that collaboration is requires more than one transaction?
In
> the case of sheets of paper being purchased from one artist and bound by
> another, the ball is thrown only once. In the case of painting a moustache
> on the Mona Lisa, the ball is thrown only once. In the instance of Stone
> Eye, even though all the artists used the same inner material, they did
not
> collaborate on the bindings; the ball was thrown only once.
>
> I believe that in order to have collaboration, the ball has to passed back
> and forth between the same people a minimum of twice. And purposeful
> collaboration has to have a coordinated agenda as its intent. Otherwise,
> might the interaction be called by another name? Mom telling a child what
to
> do is not a collaboration. If the child offers an alternate opinion and
> there is a different outcome, we might call this a collaboration - or we
> might call it a compromise.
>
> John Cutrone sold me a broadside. Thankfully, he did not ask if or how I
was
> planning to frame it. I think/hope he would be happy with the outcome as
was
> the recipient. Even though five people have now been involved, John got
the
> broadside from someone else, the purchaser, the framer and the recipient -
> the ball has only been thrown in one direction. It has taken all of us to
> make it happen. I think we are compatriots, but not collaborators.
>
> Of course, John offered this item for sale. He already gave up his
> "ownership" of the broadside when he did this. Alice, if you made contents
> "for sale"  as such, instead of contents complete with cover, would it be
so
> difficult to be an equal opportunity seller? Novelists rarely have control
> of their covers. An interesting query.
>
> As I was also a participant in the Hunter/McCreight gathering at Haystack,
> it does seem the "collaboration" word takes on different slants depending
on
> context. I do enjoy the dialogue. Keep the ball rolling.
>
> A.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Sun, 21 Jul 2002 14:27:50 +0000
> From:    Gerald Lange <Bieler@WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
> Subject: Hard metal foundry type for foil stamping
>
> For sale from our collection: Notched Kingsley-ATF typefaces: font of
Shadow
> caps; font of Typo Upright Bold caps; large triple-font of Keynote caps
with
> lowercase and figures. All 24pt over 18pt body. None to very little use,
> fonted. Contact offlist.
>
> Gerald Lange
> The Bieler Press
> Marina del Rey, California
> Bieler@worldnet.att.net
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Sun, 21 Jul 2002 18:01:04 EDT
> From:    Alice Simpson <Apeachw96@AOL.COM>
> Subject: COLLABORATION
>
> Peter-
> Why would someone buy an artist book and then discard the original
binding?
> Why is that a common practice?
> Good text-lousy binding?
> Good printing-ugly cover?
>
> So much to learn and so little time,
> Alice
> <apeachW96@aol.com>
> <<A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/tangobook">
> http://www.geocities.com/tangobook</A>>
>
> << So, then what happens if someone buys the book and discards the
original
> binding? An all to common practice.
>
> p.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Philobiblon: Book Arts, Different By Design
> Hand Binding, Conservation, and Project Websites
> Peter D. Verheyen
> <mailto:verheyen@philobiblon.com>
> <http://www.philobiblon.com/philobiblon>
>
>
> >Admittedly not a good collaborator and, while flattered, I would
> >have a problem selling sheets to ANYONE that offered to buy them.
> >A control issue, for sure! While at the same time still understanding
> >that if a person were to purchase, say, the Mona Lisa, that it would be
> >their property, and should they want to give Mona a moustache,
> >so be it!
> >
> >That said, my preference would be to either choose or approve
> >of the person putting a cover on my book, although I'm open
> >to hearing other opinions and to reconsidering that preference.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Sun, 21 Jul 2002 20:04:32 -02-30
> From:    Tara Bryan <tbryan@THEZONE.NET>
> Subject: Re: COLLABORATION
>
> Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the practice of buying books
in
> sheets relates more to fine press editions than to artist's books. I would
> not sell books in sheets for two reasons- 1. my editions are too small,
and
> 2. the binding is part of the piece as I conceive and design it. There is
a
> long history of books being printed and sold in sheets then bound for the
> owner in, say, matching bindings for the owner's library.
>
>
> Tara Bryan
> walking bird press
> 63 Deermarsh Road
> Flatrock, Newfoundland A1K 1C8
> Canada
> http://www.tarabryan.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Sun, 21 Jul 2002 19:51:05 EDT
> From:    Stephanie Bird <BirdoSan@AOL.COM>
> Subject: Re: BOOK_ARTS-L Digest - 19 Jul 2002 to 20 Jul 2002 (#2002-198)
>
> In a message dated 7/21/02 12:28:24 PM, LISTSERV@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU writes:
>
> <<
> Does anyone know of a source for Strathmore Pastelle paper in small (ie
less
> than a carton) quantities at good prices?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> Katie Harper
> Ars Brevis Press >>
>
> Try the Daniel Smith Catalog or New York Central Art Supply or Paper
Source.
> They all sell single sheets.  A few of Daniel Smith and NYC Art Supply
papers
> need to be shipped in groups of 10.
>
> Best,
> Stephanie Rose Bird
> Painter/Paper Artist
> Chicago
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Sun, 21 Jul 2002 20:11:49 -0400
> From:    "Peter D. Verheyen" <verheyen@PHILOBIBLON.COM>
> Subject: Re: COLLABORATION
>
> In a nutshell, there are some very nicely printed  and visually
interesting
> books out there. In some cases it may be a small volume with a simple
paper
> wrapper, but the subject matter lends itself well to a fine binding. In
> other cases it may be a case of a nice edition in a functional, but
> uninteresting binding (or in some cases poor binding).  Some trade books
> are even worth rebinding in fancy bindings. Lets face it, there are many
> wonderfully printed/illustrated books out there in horribly disfunctional
> bindings as well as the opposite of terrific bindings with horrible
> insides. Being "critical" of what we see and nailing down the "why" is an
> important part of shaping our awareness as practitioners of a craft /
> artists / consumers.
>
> Historically books were printed and issued in various states. These could
> range from installments in a paper wrapper to complete texts provisionally
> bound in paper wrappers or with crude boards. The French were especially
> well known for this. One would then take these installments or provisional
> bindings to ones favorite binders.
>
> In terms of buying an then rebinding an artists book, that's an
interesting
> question, and not really what I had interpreted the earlier message as
> referring to, especially as it was in the context of an edition. I would
> have qualms about rebinding an unique work, especially if I had bought it
> for that uniqueness (or other qualities).  Then the question becomes, what
> is an artist's book. We've been around this
> Loooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnngggggggggggggggggg block many times, always
> interesting, but nothing that can be resolved. I would not put an
editioned
> book in the same category as unique book work as a matter of course.
>
> I've bough numerous books in sheets from fine presses - Chelonidae Press,
> Rarach Press, Press  Intermezzo
> <http://web.wt.net/~rbertin/pressintermezzo/>, Warwick Press, Peter and
> Donna Thomas, Sea  Pen Press and Papermill, and Bird Press to name a few.
> Most of these are fine press (letterpress) shops specializing in finely
> printed editions. All have welcomed inquiries for books in sheets, some
> have offered them up for themed binding exhibitions, and some have been
> collaborations, most notably with Bird Press for which I have bound most
of
> the editions, as well as completing unique bindings.
>
> What goes through my head when I work on a design for a binding? Does the
> subject matter appeal to me? Typographic layout? Illustrations? As I read
> the book it leaves it own imprint on my mind. and I then begin to
interpret
> some aspect of the text/illustration in a way that appeals to me.
Sometimes
> that design takes its form from some concrete representation in the text
or
> an illustration. Sometimes it's the mood that the work conveys. With
> others, its a chance to play with form and color. Many reasons.
>
> Hope this helps. This discussion is getting really interesting and I
> welcome others to contribute their ideas.
>
> p.
>
> >Peter-
> >Why would someone buy an artist book and then discard the original
binding?
> >Why is that a common practice?
> >Good text-lousy binding?
> >Good printing-ugly cover?
> >
> >So much to learn and so little time,
> >Alice
> ><apeachW96@aol.com>
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Philobiblon: Book Arts, Different By Design
> Hand Binding, Conservation, and Project Websites
> Peter D. Verheyen
> <mailto:verheyen@philobiblon.com>
> <http://www.philobiblon.com/philobiblon>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Sun, 21 Jul 2002 20:52:17 -0400
> From:    "Peter D. Verheyen" <verheyen@PHILOBIBLON.COM>
> Subject: Re: collaboration
>
> To "collaboration." I would not consider many of the "design bindings"
I've
> made collaborations. To pick up on what Ann Grasso said, there need to be
> significant bounces between the parties. If it's an edition that becomes
> trickier. In my work with Bird Press, the artist is very hands on in the
> binding design and structure. He's a superb printmaker, but not a binder.
> What I have to do then is work with him on realizing his design ideas in a
> way that works structurally. I would view this as a collaboration, but a
> technical one, not a creative one, as it's his creative idea. I just have
> to make it work.
>
> In the case of one edition, 26 Words <http://www.philobiblon.com/alphabet>
> I approached him with the idea of doing an alphabet book for a thematic
> Guild of Book Workers exhibition
>
<http://palimpsest.stanford.edu/byorg/gbw/gallery/abecedarium/contents.htm>.
> It was clear that he was going to be the "creative genius" behind the
book,
> but together we came up with the way we were going to represent that
> alphabet. What we decided to do was randomly pick 26 words from the
> dictionary and then compare lists. This worked very well although we
> reselected a few after review. As he is a printmaker, and the focus of the
> book was the prints, we opted for a concertina which would allow the whole
> book to be displayed if needed. We then split the covering materials for
> the edition (of 10) in half,  5 being done my way, 5 incorporating his
> painted panels. In addition there were three unique bindings which I
> designed myself, though he helped me out of a mental jam on the case for
one.
>
> I would say this was a of collaborative process, whereas the other
> instances have been more of a professional contractual arrangement. We
> worked together, but I wouldn't consider a collaboration. With my copies
> it's then free rein to interpret them as I see fit.
>
> p.
>
>
> >Of course, John offered this item for sale. He already gave up his
> >"ownership" of the broadside when he did this. Alice, if you made
contents
> >"for sale"  as such, instead of contents complete with cover, would it be
so
> >difficult to be an equal opportunity seller? Novelists rarely have
control
> >of their covers. An interesting query.
> >
> >As I was also a participant in the Hunter/McCreight gathering at
Haystack,
> >it does seem the "collaboration" word takes on different slants depending
on
> >context. I do enjoy the dialogue. Keep the ball rolling.
> >
> >A.
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Philobiblon: Book Arts, Different By Design
> Hand Binding, Conservation, and Project Websites
> Peter D. Verheyen
> <mailto:verheyen@philobiblon.com>
> <http://www.philobiblon.com/philobiblon>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of BOOK_ARTS-L Digest - 20 Jul 2002 to 21 Jul 2002 (#2002-199)
> ******************************************************************

             ***********************************************
            BOOK_ARTS-L: The listserv for all the book arts.
      For subscription information, the Archive, and other related
            resources and links go to the Book_Arts-L FAQ at:
                      <http://www.philobiblon.com>

        Archive maintained and suppported by Conservation OnLine
                    <http://palimpsest.stanford.edu>
             ***********************************************


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