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Re: [BKARTS] messages to Book Arts-L from museum-security.org



Mr Cremers -

I feel compelled to add my .02 $ here as Dr Werner is not alone in
his impression of your mailing list.

As you may recall, i also took exception to a previous posting of
yours on this list, and got barbqued for my troubles, when in fact
the account you "took the trouble" to post was amazingly incomplete -
nowhere in it did you or the article writer state that guns were used
by educated thieves; indeed, the account sounded as if some
lower-class scum had taken it upon themselves to loot and vandalise
the local library.

Subsequent postings, such as the one regarding the library arson (in
England?) and the looting/arson (in India?) have also been
incomplete: the reader has been obliged to go hunting for additional
information as to location, political and social background... etc
etc.

So to summarise: you "take the trouble" to post a considerable number
of terribly/rather/somewhat alarming stories that are hideously
incomplete from a journalistic and informational points of view, and
then blame your readers for taking exception to your postings, or,
worse, take it as a personal insult when a reader takes exception to
the content.

If you expect people to read your postings, which i admit could
possibly be of some value, then you might take the trouble to make
sure they're accurate -- especially if you don't like people
commenting on their validity.

fran sendbuehler.

I have waited a few days before answering the insult below:

"...all of the messages relayed from this "museum-security" group seem to
contain the same message: "There are evil people(usually
lower-class or non-European)doing evil things."

Especially the 'lower-class or non-European' part really did hit me because
there is no ground at all for this accusation. Calling our organization
'this "museum-security" group' already seems to be a hardly subtle
defamation of the free service we offer.

We maintain two mailing lists: the Museum Security Network mailing list and
the Cultural Property Protection Net mailinglist. Those of you who really
care are invited to browse our archives at:
http://te.verweg.com/pipermail/cpprot/, and
http://te.verweg.com/pipermail/msn-list/. You will see that there is no
ground at all for Mr. Werner's weird accusation.

Hundreds of messages about incidents with cultural property have been send
to our 2000 readers in 85 countries for the past 8 years. Just very few of
those messages have been forwarded by me to Book Arts-L and Exlibris because
I expected these to be of importance to the book community.

We do not select our messages on actions by 'lower-class or non-European'.
Social or ethnical backgrounds in no way are relevant selecting the
information we send. It also by no means is true that 'lower-class or
non-European' are over represented in our messages. Contrary, we report a
lot about art thefts, illicit excavations and looting in war time. Most of
these criminal acts are performed by, or financed, directly or indirectly by
well educated Europeans and Americans. Londonm Brussels, Paris and Amsterdam
are centers of illicit trade in cultural property. The USA is a real
consumer country of looted antiquities. So, please do not try and accuse me
of putting focus on 'lower-class or non-European'.

I do hope that the information Mr. Werner is giving his students at NYU and
the School of Visual Arts is more adequate and based on facts than what he
just did on this mailing list.

Ton Cremers



 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Paul T Werner" <paul.werner@xxxxxxx>
 To: <BOOK_ARTS-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
 Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 11:03 AM
 Subject: Re: messages to Book Arts-L from museum-security.org


> Actually, all of the messages relayed from this "museum-security" > group seem to contain the same message: "There are evil people(usually > lower-class or non-European)doing evil things." It's a bit like > flipping the radio dial and hearing that "In California a
> teacher was
 > fired for mentioning the Declaration of Independence in his
 > classroom." Sure. Whatever.
 >
 > Paul T Werner, New York

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