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Re: [BKARTS] messages to Book Arts-L from museum-security.org (my last posting about this)



For the past eight years we maintain a news clipping service about incidents
with cultural property. Every now and then I forward reports to Book Arts-L
that are book or library related (. These reports ALWAYS are from newspapers
and I ALWAYS add the WWW address of these newspapers. I really do not
understand why this has led to personal attacks at me. Thanks for those who
supported me in this, and those who felt a need to attack me, PLEASE do
realize that neither the wording nor the contents of these mailings are mine
but from news agencies, newspapers, or other on-line news sources.

In the posting below I am being critized because those reports are
'hideously incomplete from a journalistic and informational point(s) of
view', and that I should take care of 'additional information as to
location, political and social background'. Hold it! Is this serious Fran,
and do I understand that the forwarded news reports are so much appreciated
that some Book Arts-L readers really would like me to investigate the
backgrounds of each and every newspaper report and grant you the service of
offering the results of my investigations to the list. Wish I could afford
the time and money involved in this kind of research...

The number of my messages:

In eight years I have send 82 messages to Book Arts-L. Meaning less than one
per month. I really do not think that I have been a burden to this list,
apart from the past few days, either directly or indirectly. 

The subjectlines of all the messages are available below my signature

Cheers

Ton Cremers

_________________________
Museum Security Network
http://www.museum-security.org/
toncremers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Archive Cultural Property Protection
http://te.verweg.com/pipermail/cpprot/
Archive Museum Security Network
http://te.verweg.com/pipermail/msn-list/



      
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_________________________
  

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Book_Arts-L [mailto:BOOK_ARTS-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On 
> Behalf Of fran sendbuehler
> Sent: 18 April 2005 01:07
> To: BOOK_ARTS-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: messages to Book Arts-L from museum-security.org
> 
> Mr Cremers -
> 
> I feel compelled to add my .02 $ here as Dr Werner is not 
> alone in his impression of your mailing list.
> 
> As you may recall, i also took exception to a previous 
> posting of yours on this list, and got barbqued for my 
> troubles, when in fact the account you "took the trouble" to 
> post was amazingly incomplete - nowhere in it did you or the 
> article writer state that guns were used by educated thieves; 
> indeed, the account sounded as if some lower-class scum had 
> taken it upon themselves to loot and vandalise the local library.
> 
> Subsequent postings, such as the one regarding the library arson (in
> England?) and the looting/arson (in India?) have also been
> incomplete: the reader has been obliged to go hunting for 
> additional information as to location, political and social 
> background... etc etc.
> 
> So to summarise: you "take the trouble" to post a 
> considerable number of terribly/rather/somewhat alarming 
> stories that are hideously incomplete from a journalistic and 
> informational points of view, and then blame your readers for 
> taking exception to your postings, or, worse, take it as a 
> personal insult when a reader takes exception to the content.
> 
> If you expect people to read your postings, which i admit 
> could possibly be of some value, then you might take the 
> trouble to make sure they're accurate -- especially if you 
> don't like people commenting on their validity.
> 
> fran sendbuehler.
> 
> >I have waited a few days before answering the insult below:
> >
> >"...all of the messages relayed from this "museum-security" 
> group seem 
> >to contain the same message: "There are evil people(usually 
> lower-class 
> >or non-European)doing evil things."
> >
> >Especially the 'lower-class or non-European' part really did hit me 
> >because there is no ground at all for this accusation. Calling our 
> >organization 'this "museum-security" group' already seems to be a 
> >hardly subtle defamation of the free service we offer.
> >
> >We maintain two mailing lists: the Museum Security Network 
> mailing list 
> >and the Cultural Property Protection Net mailinglist. Those 
> of you who 
> >really care are invited to browse our archives at:
> >http://te.verweg.com/pipermail/cpprot/, and 
> >http://te.verweg.com/pipermail/msn-list/. You will see that 
> there is no 
> >ground at all for Mr. Werner's weird accusation.
> >
> >Hundreds of messages about incidents with cultural property 
> have been 
> >send to our 2000 readers in 85 countries for the past 8 years. Just 
> >very few of those messages have been forwarded by me to Book 
> Arts-L and 
> >Exlibris because I expected these to be of importance to the 
> book community.
> >
> >We do not select our messages on actions by 'lower-class or 
> non-European'.
> >Social or ethnical backgrounds in no way are relevant selecting the 
> >information we send. It also by no means is true that 
> 'lower-class or 
> >non-European' are over represented in our messages. 
> Contrary, we report 
> >a lot about art thefts, illicit excavations and looting in war time. 
> >Most of these criminal acts are performed by, or financed, 
> directly or 
> >indirectly by well educated Europeans and Americans. Londonm 
> Brussels, 
> >Paris and Amsterdam are centers of illicit trade in cultural 
> property. 
> >The USA is a real consumer country of looted antiquities. 
> So, please do 
> >not try and accuse me of putting focus on 'lower-class or 
> non-European'.
> >
> >I do hope that the information Mr. Werner is giving his 
> students at NYU 
> >and the School of Visual Arts is more adequate and based on 
> facts than 
> >what he just did on this mailing list.
> >
> >Ton Cremers
> >
> >
> >
> >>  ----- Original Message -----
> >>  From: "Paul T Werner" <paul.werner@xxxxxxx>
> >>  To: <BOOK_ARTS-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>  Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 11:03 AM
> >>  Subject: Re: messages to Book Arts-L from museum-security.org
> >>
> >>
> >>  > Actually, all of the messages relayed from this 
> "museum-security"
> >>  > group seem to contain the same message: "There are evil  
> >> people(usually  > lower-class or non-European)doing evil things." 
> >> It's a bit like  > flipping the radio dial and hearing that "In 
> >> California a
> >  > teacher was
> >>  > fired for mentioning the Declaration of Independence in his  > 
> >> classroom." Sure. Whatever.
> >>  >
> >>  > Paul T Werner, New York
> >
> >              ***********************************************
> >      The Bonefolder: an e-journal for the bookbinder and book artist
> >
> >              For all your subscription questions, go to the
> >                       Book_Arts-L FAQ and Archive.
> >
> >                   Both at: <http://www.philobiblon.com>
> >              ***********************************************
> 
>              ***********************************************
>      The Bonefolder: an e-journal for the bookbinder and book artist
> 
>              For all your subscription questions, go to the
>                       Book_Arts-L FAQ and Archive.
> 
>                   Both at: <http://www.philobiblon.com>
>              ***********************************************

             ***********************************************
     The Bonefolder: an e-journal for the bookbinder and book artist
                                    
             For all your subscription questions, go to the
                      Book_Arts-L FAQ and Archive.
                                    
                  Both at: <http://www.philobiblon.com>
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