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Re: [BKARTS] art



How do you know that the creator of a web site or poster or anything doesn't want it to be considered as art?
What about Lautrec's posters? I would consider them art, not just craft well done.
What about "art" that isn't hung in a gallery or museum because the artist isn't fortunate enough,
connected enough, doesn't care to make that effort?


What is I matte a poster?
What if I don't?

If the reader is not aware of the different mind sets required, then the
reader is undeucated.

or just doesn't care or was never exposed, or has a disability that prevents the appreciate of such things.


I am glad you seem to have this so well thought out for yourself.
I am willing to accept the shades of gray that keeps people creating and exploring.
Otherwise we would have no art whatsoever.






On Jan 26, 2006, at 12:29 PM, Michael Andrews wrote:

Simple English, no hidden message:

An artifact produced with the intention that it should be considered as art.
This is combined with the maker declaring it as art.


This has a number of levels.
In the case of a poem, the first, crude writing is written with the
intention of being art,
but the poet may not call it art until many revisions later, if ever.
In the case of free verse narrative poets, the notes may go from prose
blocks
into lines of verse. One of the purposes of verse lines is to announce to
the reader
that this is intended to read as a poem, not as prose in a computer manual.


If the reader is not aware of the different mind sets required, then the
reader is undeucated.


In the case of a photograph, the original snap may have been executed
with the intention of art, but the photographer may not call it art until
it is scanned, manipulated, cropped, fixed, and then a suitable print
produced.
Even then there are sometimes two or three additional steps.
Matting announces to the viewer that this is intended to be seen as art.
It sets it apart from the world that surrounds it asks the viewer to
consider this as more than a piece of working scratch paper.
Framing tells the world this piece of paper is a completed piece; that in
the eyes of the
photographer this is now called art.


Hanging an artifact in a gallery or in an exhibition also announces the
artist's intention.

In the case of a commercial website there is no intention of art,
only craft, and normally the programmer does not announce to the world that
this is art
even though he/she may proudly announce some bit of commercial craft well
done.


While early versions of an artifact may be of scholarly interest,
no poet would want his first notes criticized as art in comparison to
finished work.

Intention and definition.
Without either, the world should be gracious enough to allow the creator
the freedom to make artifacts, such as early versions or commercial craft,
without be threatened with denunciation by over zealous and misguided art
critics.


Conversely, actual art should be accorded the respect
of a criticism that is not so meaningless as to compare
an egg carton with Praxiteles.

michael


----- Original Message ----- From: "Jennifer Vignone" <jennifervignone@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <BOOK_ARTS-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 8:12 AM Subject: Re: art


Please explain the phrase
"intend it as art..."



On Jan 26, 2006, at 10:55 AM, Michael Andrews wrote:

Hi Richard

We just fell through the looking glass.

If art is defined as broadly as this the term is meaningless.

Any human activity from tooth brushing to genocide is an art.

The problem with equating the alphabet with waxed linen,
or java with poetry,
or a web site with a book
is that it renders all meaningful discussion pointless -
everything is everything,
end of tautology.

Commercial art is craft, not art.
It is a matter of intention and who pays the commission,
Commercial art has precious little to do with an artist's POV or world
view
or examined life; it has to do with skill, technique, craft and work
for
hire
- much like religious kitsch.


I certainly never considered a web site I made for Toyota as art,
with or without JavaScript, let alone accounts payable,
with or without skill, code, content and whether it was good or not.

To criticize a web site as art depends on intention.
If the creator did not intend it as art, then it ain't art
- and that's logic.

It is not that it is unjust to the creator,
it is that it destroys criticism itself.
There are no longer any meaningful distinctions.
Rational thought is not discursive for no rational reason.

Good is not an adequate definition of art.

Hitler was good at his job. Was he just a misunderstood artist?
Was the Invasion of Poland a book?
Porno Sites are good in terms of getting the job done.
The Republican party is good at loading the Supreme Court.
I imagine there are plenty of anesthetized brains out there who think
a Bush
with any set of initials is an artist.
Many carpenters are good. I doubt many of them consider framing to be
an art
form
although there seems to be little doubt that nails and studs are words
and
bindings.


Oh my, I just made a book.

see you down the rabbit hole

michael





----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Minsky" <minsky@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: <BOOK_ARTS-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 11:07 AM
Subject: Re: art


The Internet is my favorite book.

Code is the thread that binds the pages together. When I made the
first book art website in 1993 I was very excited that I could use
html code as binding thread. Like Michael, I am a computer geezer. I
started off programming an IBM 360 in machine language in 1964. Now
there are many forms of code, as there are many forms of bookbinding.
We have perl, java, javascript, etc.


I would not agree, however, that it is not art because it has a
commercial purpose. There are many kinds of art. Commercial Art is a
big field. And some TV commercials transcend their pecuniary
function and become iconic artworks of the culture. Some are
entertainment. Some are hilarious. The reason I titled this thread
"art" with no modifier is that it raises the fundamental question
that some have stated--when do we call it art.


It further goes toward our field wide nomenclature: Book Art is a
subset of Book Arts. The latter includes industrial arts, hand
crafts, etc. When the metaphoric content of a work is enhanced or
furthered by the materials, form and images, then we call it Book
Art.  We distinguish between Fine Art, Decorative Art and
Illustration. I've written and spoken a lot about this.

So we have two different questions posed by Peter and Michael: Is it
a book?, and is it art?

Whether it's good or not is another question. But it may be THE
question. Rose Slivka said "If it's good, it's art. If it's not, who
cares?"

-- Richard http://minsky.com

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