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Re: [BKARTS] strange typo in recent books from Latin America



I use PC in both senses; however, it would be tortuous to use the IBM
meaning in that sentence.  By the way, I dated a young lady from Colorado
for two years; she had a large circle of lady friends whom she always
addressed as "You guys."  And butch dykes were still in the future in
out days of innocence.  I was taught to say "Ladies and Gentlemen" if at
least one of the opposite sex was in the group.  Informally, I always said,
"Folks"--an expression for which I have never gotten a comment on its
PCness.  PCity sounds too rural.

Scott
P.S.
I'm still waiting from Mr. Paulsen on his allegation that the "at" symbol
has been used by several Romance languages for this very purpose for a
number of decades, long predating computer culture.  I read 1-3 articles 
or books a month in Romance languages for over a half century.  In the 3rd
grade, I even wrote a macaroni poem in English and Spanish.  It was NOT
great poetry but it was funny and got picked up by quite a few people
after I recited it on the local radio station (I think that they were
expecting the Moore version of a Night before Christmas), but a lot of 
folks wrote in for the words and I told the station to give it to anyone
as long as it had my name on it.

To a farm boy as I am. my peeps are my biddies.

-----Original Message-----
From: Book_Arts-L [mailto:BOOK_ARTS-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Bill
Roberts
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 10:23 PM
To: BOOK_ARTS-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [BKARTS] strange typo in recent books from Latin America

Scott,

I guess that I was imagining the practice of referring to a group of mixed
gender people as "Guys".   Hmmm...  I know that if you have 5 women and five
men in a group that you would not normally refer to them as "ladies".  Of
course I would normally use the term "Folks", but that may be too
politically correct.  "My peeps" also works well.... 

And I'm not sure how PC (Personal Computer) makes no sense to you.   There
are many people that get upset that people use the @ for "at" in online
forums and blogs (and on SOME e-mail lists, for that matter.)  That was a PC
inspired use, in ways like LOL and OMG are used in blogs today, where you
hear people complaining about "kids" talking in a language that they do not
understand and to them is not real English.

So maybe you can see how PC can be taken either way and could actually make
sense either way.

Bill





-----Original Message-----
From: Book_Arts-L [mailto:BOOK_ARTS-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Scott
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 10:09 PM
To: BOOK_ARTS-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [BKARTS] strange typo in recent books from Latin America

No, actually not.  I taught in the public schools over a decade off and 
on from the 60's through the early 80's and was subjected to the rule.
I finally left when the HS principal restricted the restroom in the teachers
workroom to women only; men teachers could use the restroom only in the
basement storage, which was usually blocked by boxes that had to be moved
before the room was accessible.  And the principal had the nerve to complain
that we did not put the boxes back where we found them.  I told the
principal that, before I did that, I would just come up and use his
restroom.  Never once in my hearing was a group of school teachers ever
referred to as being male, unless we were all male in a particular meeting.


P.C. in the context is obviously political correctness; the other P.C.
would make no sense in context.  If you are not sure that it offends people,
try reading the emails on this list.  Even if many or most agree, it still 
offends people.
Scott

-----Original Message-----
From: Book_Arts-L [mailto:BOOK_ARTS-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Bill
Roberts
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 7:52 PM
To: BOOK_ARTS-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [BKARTS] strange typo in recent books from Latin America

Hi,
I'm not sure if "PC Madness" refers to Personal Computers, or Political
Correctness.   Either way, I'm not sure that writing it like this offends
most people.   It seems that if it bothers someone, they could just spell it
out and not use the @.   I'm not sure that it is required.

Still, it is interesting.  English is the same, as Spanish in many ways, of
course.  When addressing a group of ten women, you could say "Ladies", but
if there is one man in the group, it would almost always be changed to
"guys".

Bill


-----Original Message-----
From: Book_Arts-L [mailto:BOOK_ARTS-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Andrew
Paulson
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 7:41 PM
To: BOOK_ARTS-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [BKARTS] strange typo in recent books from Latin America

Wait a second. I'm not sure I see the offense. This digraph seems to
me to be visually representative of the intended meaning and certainly
more efficient than "amigas/os" and the like. An argument could be
made that its use here is for some kind of gender-neutral language
modification, but that's reading into things a bit much, don't you
think?

In terms of computer culture's destruction of our received
orthographies, most scholars believe the "at" symbol can be traced as
far back as the sixteenth century, and it's certainly had a whole host
of uses over the centuries. Most important, the "at" symbol has been
used by several Romance languages for this very purpose for a number
of decades, long predating computer culture. What does this new use
have to do with "PC madness," exactly? It's unclear to me...


On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 3:51 PM, Martin Wheeler <mwheeler@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Jul 2008, Linde Brocato wrote:
>
>> it's a decent solution to the
>> gender issue in Spanish
>
> No, it isn't.
>
> a) there is no "issue" about gender in Spanish (although certain
> mentalities may wish to foster the idea that one exists, for reasons
> best known to themselves);
>
> b) it's unpronounceable.
>
> Let's hope that this ridiculous example of PC madness dies a quiet death.
> --
> Martin Wheeler - G5FM   +44 1458 83-1103 - Glastonbury - BA6 9PH - England
> mwheeler@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx   http://martinwheeler.net/   http://avalonit.net/
> GPG pub key : 01269BEB  6CAD BFFB DB11 653E B1B7 C62B  AC93 0ED8 0126 9BEB
>      - Share your knowledge. It's a way of achieving immortality. -
>
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