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Re: [BKARTS] BOOK_ARTS-L Digest - 1 Apr 2009 to 2 Apr 2009 (#2009-93)



one of my students sent me this link about re-made books:
http://www.darkroastedblend.com/2008/09/bittersweet-art-of-cutting-up- books.html


On Apr 3, 2009, at 12:00 AM, BOOK_ARTS-L automatic digest system wrote:

There are 12 messages totalling 959 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Convivio Book of Days for April
  2. searching high and low (2)
  3. Artist Book News October
  4. in need of grape mohair bookcloth (2)
  5. Drape and Throw-up
  6. Tyvek Tales (4)
  7. Thanks for the tyvek discussion!


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Date:    Thu, 2 Apr 2009 15:24:49 +1100
From:    Edward Broomhall <edward.broomhall@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Convivio Book of Days for April

Hi John,
Just to let you know that I always enjoy receiving the updates of your Book
of Days. I am also now living in the Southern Hemisphere - way down under in
Tasmania. We are enjoying the early days of a beautiful autumn. Thank you
very much for sharing your Book of Days project on this list.


Edward


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------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Apr 2009 08:24:50 -0500
From:    Jeanne Bennett <jlandman@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: searching high and low

In teaching fore-edge painting, I refer to the curve made by fanning the
edge as the "block arch".


It's important when clamping the edge in preparation for painting that the
book block remains in that position for as short a time as possible, perhaps
3 or 4 days, so that the block does not remember that position and spoil the
book by leaving a residual arch.


Hope this helps.

Jeanne Bennett

----- Original Message -----
From: "Carol Pratt" <jcpratt@xxxxxxx>
To: <BOOK_ARTS-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 2:21 PM
Subject: Re: [BKARTS] searching high and low


When I discussed it with him, Don used the term to more or less cover
both. The one is pretty much inseparable from the other and when lining
the backbone or spine of the block, the shape of the arch is related to
the amount of arc along the gutter. Beyond that I never really worried
about it.


Carol

--------
On Apr 1, 2009, at 7:25 AM, John MacKrell wrote:

In Don Etherington's dictionary of book conservation terms (see
http://cool-palimpsest.stanford.edu/don/don.html), throw up is defined
as
follows:


"The rising up or buckling of the spine of a book when it is opened. It
is a
characteristic of the HOLLOW BACK , and because of it the leaves lie
flatter
than they ordinarily would. "Throw up" is especially important in
library
binding, where the sewing, which is usually oversewing, is relatively
tight
and inflexible. See also:SPRING-BACK (1)."


This implies that the term actually applies to the rising of the spine
in an
upward curve when a hollow is present or the book is flat backed. There
does not seem to be a defined term for the curving wave of the pages up
out
of the gutter and then down to the foredge.



Regards, -- John MacKrell CIMdata - The Global Leader in PLM Consulting 3909 Research Park Drive Ann Arbor, MI, 48108 USA +1 (734) 668-9922 www.cimdata.com



From: Samantha Couture <sac17@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Reply-To: Book_Arts-L <BOOK_ARTS-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 11:14:42 -0400
To: <BOOK_ARTS-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [BKARTS] searching high and low

I was also taught "throw up" (by english binders).



FLYLEAF BINDERY
book conservation & hand binding
Samantha Couture
Professional Associate, AIC

Schenectady, NY 12305
sac@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
www.flyleafbindery.com
518.377.1163




On Mar 31, 2009, at 9:17 AM, Brian Herschler wrote:


Dear Artisans and Interested Parties,

I am wondering if you could help me find a term? I have been
through the online glossaries, have asked the IOBA Discuss list,
and finally got referred to this listserv by a member of the GBW
(Thank you for that!).

I'm looking for a term applicable to an open book that refers to
the rising curve of the pages that finally and (in many bindings)
dramatically dips down to the binding edge. In other words, the
shape that the book takes in the vicinity of the spine when the
book is lying open face up, that roll and dip. My understanding is
that 'gutter' refers to the inner blank space, the margin all along
the spine running down to the binding edge. The term, as I
understand it, is useful in a discussion of whether a book may be
rebound. Unfortunately, though 'gutter' refers to the right
location, more or less, it's not exactly the term I'm looking for.


As you know, the quality of a binding is judged (in part) by how
flat the open book lies. When discussing this quality, it might be
useful to have a term that exactly refers to that gentle roll up
and more pronounced dip down, the recto and verso looking like two
ocean waves meeting and bowing to each other.

Please let me know what you think.

Thank you.

Brian Herschler



Thank you again.



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------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Apr 2009 22:46:33 +0900
From:    Brian Herschler <briankh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: searching high and low

Thank you everyone!  All the input continues to be marvelous. It's
fascinating that the question is generating so much discussion.

Some off-list creative suggestions have included 'gutter curve,' and
'lay of the gutter.'

In addition to what English has to offer, I wonder what the French
language uses? I notice in the glossaries quite a few book terms have
been taken from the French, as their tradition of bookbinding is also
quite old. Are there any French or French speaking people on the list
who may care to weigh in?

I should say that I'm writing a novel, and am still trying on all the
terms thus far suggested. At the same time however, I do want the
term to have some currency (in whatever language) in the book arts
world. Thus I have come to you.

Thanks again!

Brian Herschler
Nanzan University
Nagoya, Japan


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------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Apr 2009 08:14:41 -0700
From:    Carolyn Leigh/Ron Perry <banis32@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Artist Book News October

Dear Jill,

I have been following your Artist Book News and would like to reserve
a space for the October issue. If there is space available, please
send me the specs.

You can check out my work at www.CarolynLeigh.com. I am represented by
Vamp and Tramp.
All the best, Carolyn

On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 9:55 AM, Jill Timm <jtimm@xxxxxxx> wrote:
Have you forgotten?


Have you been procrastinating?







It is not too late to reserve your space in Artist Book News, there are a=
couple of spaces left for the Spring issue. Reserve today.






Artist Books News reaches an international market niche that many book ar=
tists find difficult and very expensive to reach. The target market include=
s public and private artist books and special collections, in public, museu=
m, college, and university libraries world wide, and it is a lucrative mark=
et of educated artist books buyers.






Published only twice a year, and featuring only small number of quality a=
rtist books.=A0=A0Just send me an email to reserve your space.






How else are you going to reach such a prime market for less than 50=A2 e=
ach? Build name recognition. Sell books. Gain exposure with known buyers.






Get all the details at www.artistbooknews.com/abnews2.html




Jill



Jill Timm Mystical Places Press www.mysticalplaces.com Publisher of Artist Book News www.artistbooknews.com


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--=20 ------------------ Carolyn Leigh and Ron Perry Art and Artifacts: www.carolynleigh.com - painting, prints and painter's books www.art-pacific.com - New Guinea and Indonesian artifacts www.rimjournal.com - Alamos, Mexico, recipes, adobe ... ------------------- www.kxci.org - webstream great music 24/7

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------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Apr 2009 12:40:53 -0400
From:    Rena Scott <tornpaperbooks@xxxxxxx>
Subject: in need of grape mohair bookcloth

I am in need of 2 yards of grape mohair bookcloth.? I usually get it from Hiromi Paper but they are out.
Rena Oldham



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------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Apr 2009 12:48:48 EDT
From:    Carolyn Chadwick <Chadwickbb@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: in need of grape mohair bookcloth

try New York Central Art Supply - 62 Third Avenue, NYC, 212-473-7705
They have many of those Mohairs in stock, as well as other Japanese cloths.


Talas may have that color but I don't think so - they're at 212-219-0770

Carolyn


**************
New Low Prices on Dell Laptops =E2=80=93 Starting at $399=20
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220433304x1201394525/aol? redir=3Dh=
ttp:%2F%2Fa
d.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B213540718%3B35046385%3Be)


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------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Apr 2009 17:12:16 -0400
From:    Jeff Peachey <peachey@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Drape and Throw-up

--Apple-Mail-17-554014858
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Tom Conroy has a good examination of drape and throw-up in The Book
and Paper Group Annual, #6:

http://aic.stanford.edu/sg/bpg/annual/v06/bp06-01.html



A short excerpt:

Drape and the amount of throw-up needed




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Fig. 1. Good and poor drape. Folio and duodecimo from the same paper;
the 12mo is cross-grained as well as narrower.

As the book is opened and closed the cross-section arc of the spine
will normally throw up, going from convex to flat or to concave. The
degree of throw-up needed will vary with the drape of the text block,
modified by the book's thickness and the width of the gutter margin.

Drape is the flexibility of the page over its width. It is not a
direct quality of the paper; rather, it is the stiffness of the paper
divided by the page width and modified by the format.

A wide page will drape better than a narrow page of the same paper
(Fig. 1); for instance the paper used by William Morris drapes well
in the Kelmscott Chaucer, but when his imitators used it in
duodecimos it draped very poorly. Again, most papers drape better
with the grain vertical (folio and octavo) than horizontal (quarto,
duodecimo, sextodecimo)1.

The book should preferably open from the bending of the page over
most of its width; there should be as little throw-up as is
compatible with free opening. I f a book throws up high the stresses
and wear of opening are localised at the gutter instead of being
spread out across the page. The paper will bend too much at the
gutter and will be fatigued; worse, the tension of the sewing thread
and supports will change as the book opens and closes, sawing the
thread against the stations. A low throw-up is most important when
the paper is both very weak and very flexible, as can happen with
thin but degraded papers.




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Fig. 2. "Settling down" of a flexibly-lined, tight-back book. The
spine may remain slightly convex, especially at the joints, yet still
have flattened out enough to be stable when lying open on the table.

Few books have such good drape that a completely rigid spine can be
used; most will need some throw-up or the book will not lie flat on
the table to any given page. In general the spine should at least
flatten out a bit when the book is opened, settling down on the table
like a hen on her nest (Fig. 2). If the spine is rigid, especially if
the round is high, the book is apt to tip over on the fulcrum of the
spine, rocking to the side of the opening with more pages; the pages
will flip over as the book tips, and the book will close itself (Fig.
8).




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Fig. 3. Opening of a book with poor drape but high throw-up.

A higher throw-up is needed when the drape is poor (Fig. 3), when the
book is thick, or when the gutter margin is narrow (Fig. 4).
Thickness and narrow margins have similar effects, burying the text
in the gutter where the page is near perpendicular to the table. With
poor drape, of course, the pages simply will not settle down.






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------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Apr 2009 15:48:45 -0700
From:    Andie Thrams <andiethrams@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Tyvek Tales

Two tyvek tales:

1. I listened with horror to friends, who are general contractors, as
they discussed finding disintegrating tyvek inside the walls of homes
built less than twenty years ago. They said they found tyvek sheeting
in the walls of homes they were renovating in tattered shreds. They
are returning to using good old tar paper for their own  work as a
result.

2. A USGS map from REI, that has been on our wall for under four
years, recently crumbled into a zillion pieces and fell right off the
wall. It had been printed out from their in-store on-demand machines
on a tyvek-like material, though I am uncertain exactly what that
material is. To their credit, REI refunded in full. I asked about
printing out on paper instead, but this option is not available.
(Yikes.)

So, what of tyvek and the book arts? I understand some tyvek is sold
as "archival," and that this has to do with the various coatings on
the tyvek. And, this is what I have been using. But... now I really
wonder about tyvek. Can we rest assured about the longevity of this
material? Or am I nuts to use it in books I would not want to fall
apart in the near future? I really do love how it takes color and
have enjoyed using it for end sheets and other purposes, too.

Any thoughts out there?

Thanks!
Andie Thrams





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------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Apr 2009 16:16:21 -0700
From:    Dave Allen <allen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Tyvek Tales

Andie,
I can't seem to find anything on the web about problems and all the
contractors I've talked to seem to love the stuff.
It is my understanding from the Dupont website etc that tyvek is uv
resistant among other attributes. They use it for car covers to protect
the paint from sun exposure. The only things it is not good for are
products where it repeatedly gets crushed, eg. sails.
Do you have any written or web references about the horrors you describe?
Dave


Beddall Bookbinding Conservation & Restoration
840 Snowdrop Ave. Victoria BC V8Z 2N4
(250)888-9380    http://www.Bookbinder.ca



Andie Thrams wrote:
Two tyvek tales:

1. I listened with horror to friends, who are general contractors, as
they discussed finding disintegrating tyvek inside the walls of homes
built less than twenty years ago. They said they found tyvek sheeting
in the walls of homes they were renovating in tattered shreds. They
are returning to using good old tar paper for their own  work as a
result.

2. A USGS map from REI, that has been on our wall for under four
years, recently crumbled into a zillion pieces and fell right off the
wall. It had been printed out from their in-store on-demand machines
on a tyvek-like material, though I am uncertain exactly what that
material is. To their credit, REI refunded in full. I asked about
printing out on paper instead, but this option is not available. (Yikes.)


So, what of tyvek and the book arts? I understand some tyvek is sold
as "archival," and that this has to do with the various coatings on
the tyvek. And, this is what I have been using. But... now I really
wonder about tyvek. Can we rest assured about the longevity of this
material? Or am I nuts to use it in books I would not want to fall
apart in the near future? I really do love how it takes color and have
enjoyed using it for end sheets and other purposes, too.


Any thoughts out there?

Thanks!
Andie Thrams





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------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Apr 2009 16:33:37 -0700
From:    Velma Bolyard <velmabolyard@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Tyvek Tales

Andie,=0AMany folks around the North Country wrap shrubbery for the winter =
(Oct-Apr) in burlap, woven plastic feed sacks, or tyvek. One abandoned pla=
ce has had burlap wrapping a tree for several years that is in fine shape. =
I recently noticed a home with ten or so wrapped shrubs, the tyvek in shred=
s. I was surprised to see it so tattered after our long, but not terribly h=
arsh winter. Don't know if this helps...=0AVelma=0A =0A=0A=0A______________=
__________________=0AFrom: Andie Thrams <andiethrams@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>=0ATo: B=
OOK_ARTS-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx=0ASent: Thursday, April 2, 2009 6:48:45 PM=0ASu=
bject: [BKARTS] Tyvek Tales=0A=0ATwo tyvek tales:=0A=0A1. I listened with h=
orror to friends, who are general contractors, as they discussed finding di=
sintegrating tyvek inside the walls of homes built less than twenty years a=
go. They said they found tyvek sheeting in the walls of homes they were ren=
ovating in tattered shreds. They are returning to using good old tar paper =
for their own work as a result.=0A=0A2. A USGS map from REI, that has been=
on our wall for under four years, recently crumbled into a zillion pieces =
and fell right off the wall. It had been printed out from their in- store on=
-demand machines on a tyvek-like material, though I am uncertain exactly wh=
at that material is. To their credit, REI refunded in full. I asked about p=
rinting out on paper instead, but this option is not available. (Yikes.)=0A=
=0ASo, what of tyvek and the book arts? I understand some tyvek is sold as =
"archival," and that this has to do with the various coatings on the tyvek.=
And, this is what I have been using. But... now I really wonder about tyve=
k. Can we rest assured about the longevity of this material? Or am I nuts t=
o use it in books I would not want to fall apart in the near future? I real=
ly do love how it takes color and have enjoyed using it for end sheets and =
other purposes, too.=0A=0AAny thoughts out there?=0A=0AThanks! =0AAndie Thra=
ms=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A ************=
***********************************=0A Pl=
ease note that attachments to listserv messages are not permitted,=0A =
and are automatically removed by the listserver.=0A =
For all your subscription questions, go to the Book_Arts-L F=
AQ and Archive.=0A See <http://www.philobiblon.com> for full informa=
tion.=0A *********************=
**************************=0A=0A=0A=0A


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------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Apr 2009 20:45:18 -0400
From:    R John Miller <R_John_Miller@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Tyvek Tales

Ugh...Tyvek in the Book Arts and Archival? Here in the Mid- Atlantic when a
good N'or East'r or Sou' West'r blow across the region the havoc they reek
from higher than average tides to severe wind damage can be catastrophic.


I've seen the Tyvek on many a new and relatively new home that had been
deshingled from the storm torn to shreds underneath.


But you've got to figure...with the sun's heat beating down on either tar or
tyvek over time one's gonna dry out and crumble as it does and the other's
bound to bio-degrade as it was meant to.


A book will not be subjected to the same harsh conditions that a house
might, direct sunlight being a major factor in the deterioration of Tyvek
and plastics woven like it.


I had an old C&P Printer sitting in my backyard waiting for someone to come
and pick the thing up, and I covered it in a Tyvek like tarp material, the
sun baked the thing and made it brittle in no time flat and it did nothing
to protect the C&P underneath.


Therefore, I think I speak from some experience not only in having taken
courses in human conservation in college, as in survival of the species
against the elements of nature, I've dealt with the mess that Tyvek and its
ilk are, fine for some things as long as they are in a protected
environment, but as for covering a house or a usable book in the stuff, I
just wouldn't. The entropy curve on Tyvek is too steep.


John
Bookbinder
And Conservationist in more ways than one.


-----Original Message-----
From: Book_Arts-L [mailto:BOOK_ARTS-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Velma
Bolyard
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 7:34 PM
To: BOOK_ARTS-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [BKARTS] Tyvek Tales


Andie,
Many folks around the North Country wrap shrubbery for the winter (Oct-Apr)
in burlap, woven plastic feed sacks, or tyvek. One abandoned place has had
burlap wrapping a tree for several years that is in fine shape. I recently
noticed a home with ten or so wrapped shrubs, the tyvek in shreds. I was
surprised to see it so tattered after our long, but not terribly harsh
winter. Don't know if this helps...
Velma




________________________________
From: Andie Thrams <andiethrams@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: BOOK_ARTS-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, April 2, 2009 6:48:45 PM
Subject: [BKARTS] Tyvek Tales

Two tyvek tales:

1. I listened with horror to friends, who are general contractors, as they
discussed finding disintegrating tyvek inside the walls of homes built less
than twenty years ago. They said they found tyvek sheeting in the walls of
homes they were renovating in tattered shreds. They are returning to using
good old tar paper for their own work as a result.


2. A USGS map from REI, that has been on our wall for under four years,
recently crumbled into a zillion pieces and fell right off the wall. It had
been printed out from their in-store on-demand machines on a tyvek- like
material, though I am uncertain exactly what that material is. To their
credit, REI refunded in full. I asked about printing out on paper instead,
but this option is not available. (Yikes.)


So, what of tyvek and the book arts? I understand some tyvek is sold as
"archival," and that this has to do with the various coatings on the tyvek.
And, this is what I have been using. But... now I really wonder about tyvek.
Can we rest assured about the longevity of this material? Or am I nuts to
use it in books I would not want to fall apart in the near future? I really
do love how it takes color and have enjoyed using it for end sheets and
other purposes, too.


Any thoughts out there?

Thanks!
Andie Thrams





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------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 2 Apr 2009 22:30:54 -0500
From:    Kathleen Garness <kmgfinearts@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Thanks for the tyvek discussion!

I forwarded that note on to my science-art group and received this in
response:
"Tyvek has been proposed as a suitable material for specimen labels in
natural history collections.  A post on the subject appeared just two
days ago on NHCOLL-L."

So there are continuing questions about the long-term feasibility of
this material.

I know the Newberry Library uses a particular kind of plastic to
encapsulate fragile materials. Anyone know what that material might be?


I appreciate the discussion!

Kathy Marie Garness


"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." - Margaret Mead


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End of BOOK_ARTS-L Digest - 1 Apr 2009 to 2 Apr 2009 (#2009-93)
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